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This is no new phenomenon, but its effects have become more and more obvious and pronounced over the past decade, especially with the massive overrepresentation

This is no new phenomenon, but its effects have become more and more obvious and pronounced over the past decade, especially with the massive overrepresentation of Indians in engineering, science, and health. Indian American children actually scored better than any other group on "digit span" tests given to young immigrants, indicating an average IQ of about 112 (79th percentile). For an older article on the same subject, see: http://newamericamedia.org/2012/07/indian-americans-most-educated-richest-says-pew-report.php http://newamericamedia.org/2012/07/indian-americans-most-edu... What is the cause? Most likely, an extremely strong self-selecting tendency for immigrants. Most of the Indian immigrants I know attended one of the IITs, and I'm sure many here have a similar experience. The flipside of this self-selection is a pronounced brain drain on Indian society. It will be very interesting over the next two decades to see if, with the rise of India, this trend continues, flattens, or even reverses. Even with the current level of investment, however, the new "model minority" is likely to stay that way for a while.

jgalt212 11y ago
i.e in this case, the following does not apply: “Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me: I lift my lamp beside the golden door.”
- Crito 11y ago
  Words of a late 19th century poet. The way people quote it, you'd think it was straight out of the Constitution or Declaration of Independence or something. The fact that the poem was written after the Chinese Exclusion Act was written makes it something of a farce, IMHO.
  - jgalt212 11y ago
    The words stand on their own, but the broad application of those words is certainly an ideal, and not a true reflection of this country's varied immigration policies towards various ethnic groups over its shortish history.
krat0sprakhar 11y ago
> It will be very interesting over the next two decades to see if, with the rise of India, this trend continues, flattens, or even reverses. This is true. I graduated from one of the well-known engineering colleges 4 years back in India and a good percentage of my CS batch went to study in top-schools in the US with a primary motivation to get a job and get settled. Fast forward to now, most of them are looking at coming back and thinking of getting a slice of pie in the booming tech / Ecommerce market in the country. With VC investments booming, and mobile penetration rising tremendously (even in tier 2 cities / towns) the order of the day is to quickly clone a popular business model that has worked in the west and innovate under the local constraints. I can clearly see the curve flattening or even reversing in the next 8-10 years. All in all, it sounds like good news for the Indian economy.
- shubhamjain 11y ago
  While the VC investments and rise of so many startups is exciting, I am still worried if it is sustainable or everyone is just riding on the VC fuel. Most of the startups, are consumer based companies, many of which, have followed the American counterparts, and to gain market share, they are not worried about spending money like it is endless. Take an example of "Lenskart", which will send an optician to your doorstep who will do eye-check for you @ Rs. 50 ( < $1 ). Not to mention, the sheer number of promotional and branding campaigns they have been running. I believe not every company is like that, but the startup scene in India is more or less, a gaining-user-share game. In pessimistic future, where these startups would be relying on the last pennies of their funding, I am not sure if they would be able to sustain if they start pricing the things they sell at a price to make a profit, since the Indian consumer finds these offers, the major reason to use the app. It would be good if the startups also tilt towards actually making products, like VWO, Browserstack and ours[1]. Although, I am aware, that question like, "How the heck that will make money?" has been proved to be pointless at many times in history, if you think of Facebook / Google but I believe eCommerce companies find it hard to grow profits quickly unless they are inventing a new business model (AirBnB, eBay, Alibaba). [1]: http://adpushup.com http://adpushup.com
  - ignoramous 11y ago
joshuahedlund 11y ago
> What is the cause? Most likely, an extremely strong self-selecting tendency for immigrants. As an American I often feel like we don't really appreciate the size of the population of Asia. 3 million Indians in America essentially represents the 0.1% of the Indian population most interested and able to come here, so it should not be surprising that the average performance of that group on many given metrics would be above average.
- jkyle 11y ago
  The able part should not be downplayed either. The mere cost of a ticket to get to the U.S. automatically selects for a relatively high income family as a single ticket costs more than the annual median household income. As an analogy, it's as if a ticket to Europe cost $60,000 dollars and Europeans marveled at how educated and successful and driven all Americans were. When in reality, just to afford the ticket they would have to be either already successful or extremely driven and focused on that singular goal.
a8da6b0c91d 11y ago
> an average IQ of about 112 I am very curious about the new indian elite white collar crime rates. It seems like most of the time I see a headline about a bust of medicare/medicaid scams or insider trading. Then you get multiple anecdotes of guys like Vinod Khosla trying to steal a beach. Cheating and bribery is certainly rampant in india. IQ ain't everything, you know.
- cubancigar11 11y ago
  Well they learned it from their master. Not joking. This is what American Indians say when I argue about corruption or workplace politicking - that Americans are much worse and much better at pretending it doesn't exist.
  - jonahx 11y ago
    Pretending what doesn't exist?
Retric 11y ago
Don't forget the high percentage of English proficiency in India as a whole. That opens a huge range of well-paid mid skilled corporate jobs (ex: software tester) for non-high achieving immigrants (family reunification etc.) This has a significant risk reduction for family's which has a host of positive knock on effects.

jgalt212 11y ago

i.e in this case, the following does not apply: “Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me: I lift my lamp beside the golden door.”

Crito 11y ago
Words of a late 19th century poet. The way people quote it, you'd think it was straight out of the Constitution or Declaration of Independence or something. The fact that the poem was written after the Chinese Exclusion Act was written makes it something of a farce, IMHO.
- jgalt212 11y ago
  The words stand on their own, but the broad application of those words is certainly an ideal, and not a true reflection of this country's varied immigration policies towards various ethnic groups over its shortish history.

krat0sprakhar 11y ago

> It will be very interesting over the next two decades to see if, with the rise of India, this trend continues, flattens, or even reverses. This is true. I graduated from one of the well-known engineering colleges 4 years back in India and a good percentage of my CS batch went to study in top-schools in the US with a primary motivation to get a job and get settled. Fast forward to now, most of them are looking at coming back and thinking of getting a slice of pie in the booming tech / Ecommerce market in the country. With VC investments booming, and mobile penetration rising tremendously (even in tier 2 cities / towns) the order of the day is to quickly clone a popular business model that has worked in the west and innovate under the local constraints. I can clearly see the curve flattening or even reversing in the next 8-10 years. All in all, it sounds like good news for the Indian economy.

shubhamjain 11y ago
While the VC investments and rise of so many startups is exciting, I am still worried if it is sustainable or everyone is just riding on the VC fuel. Most of the startups, are consumer based companies, many of which, have followed the American counterparts, and to gain market share, they are not worried about spending money like it is endless. Take an example of "Lenskart", which will send an optician to your doorstep who will do eye-check for you @ Rs. 50 ( < $1 ). Not to mention, the sheer number of promotional and branding campaigns they have been running. I believe not every company is like that, but the startup scene in India is more or less, a gaining-user-share game. In pessimistic future, where these startups would be relying on the last pennies of their funding, I am not sure if they would be able to sustain if they start pricing the things they sell at a price to make a profit, since the Indian consumer finds these offers, the major reason to use the app. It would be good if the startups also tilt towards actually making products, like VWO, Browserstack and ours[1]. Although, I am aware, that question like, "How the heck that will make money?" has been proved to be pointless at many times in history, if you think of Facebook / Google but I believe eCommerce companies find it hard to grow profits quickly unless they are inventing a new business model (AirBnB, eBay, Alibaba). [1]: http://adpushup.com http://adpushup.com
- ignoramous 11y ago

joshuahedlund 11y ago

> What is the cause? Most likely, an extremely strong self-selecting tendency for immigrants. As an American I often feel like we don't really appreciate the size of the population of Asia. 3 million Indians in America essentially represents the 0.1% of the Indian population most interested and able to come here, so it should not be surprising that the average performance of that group on many given metrics would be above average.

jkyle 11y ago
The able part should not be downplayed either. The mere cost of a ticket to get to the U.S. automatically selects for a relatively high income family as a single ticket costs more than the annual median household income. As an analogy, it's as if a ticket to Europe cost $60,000 dollars and Europeans marveled at how educated and successful and driven all Americans were. When in reality, just to afford the ticket they would have to be either already successful or extremely driven and focused on that singular goal.

a8da6b0c91d 11y ago

> an average IQ of about 112 I am very curious about the new indian elite white collar crime rates. It seems like most of the time I see a headline about a bust of medicare/medicaid scams or insider trading. Then you get multiple anecdotes of guys like Vinod Khosla trying to steal a beach. Cheating and bribery is certainly rampant in india. IQ ain't everything, you know.

cubancigar11 11y ago
Well they learned it from their master. Not joking. This is what American Indians say when I argue about corruption or workplace politicking - that Americans are much worse and much better at pretending it doesn't exist.
- jonahx 11y ago
  Pretending what doesn't exist?

Retric 11y ago

Don't forget the high percentage of English proficiency in India as a whole. That opens a huge range of well-paid mid skilled corporate jobs (ex: software tester) for non-high achieving immigrants (family reunification etc.) This has a significant risk reduction for family's which has a host of positive knock on effects.