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In this thread: people who are jealous of patio11's consulting rates and success, so they try to be "skeptical" (i.e. gratuitously negative) and do some kind of

by oskarth 11y ago

In this thread: people who are jealous of patio11's consulting rates and success, so they try to be "skeptical" (i.e. gratuitously negative) and do some kind of reductio ad absurdum about how it "doesn't make any sense" (i.e. he's being fiscally irresponsibly, or lying) to sell a business when he could "just grow it" (i.e. with no mental effort, cause it's magic to them anyway, or he's lying) or "just drop it" (cause who cares about what you do or leave behind when you have $$$ right?). Scratch all that jealousy. Grow up and be happy for his sake instead! HN is richer because of people like him. Here's my real comment on this news: Congratulations Patrick! I'm looking forward to hearing more about Starfighter. You said a few weeks ago a couple of months ago, so you better push something soon ;)

blackoil 11y ago
Alternatively, hn crowd is not prejudiced in evaluating anything. If bill gates, jobs, Zuckerberg can be critiqued, so can be patio11
- PopeOfNope 11y ago
  Critiques have substance. Destructive criticism is just negativity for the sake of negativity. I do agree though, the bigger figures get their share of undeserved hate around here.
  - irrigation 11y ago
    the bigger figures get their share of undeserved hate around here The bigger figures become untouchable, above reproach, around here. There are some figures who are literally toxic, but because they've become a part of the core group they can get away with it. And if you doubt or question them, you must be a troll. This is fairly normal group behavior, of course. It's a "group is its own worst enemy" behavior. It's how groups become insular and delusional and self-supporting. The identification and vilification of external enemies. Religious veneration. HN in a nutshell. It would be an interesting exercise to remove names from comments for a while and see how they do. I suspect the exercise would surprise some people. Further, some of the biggest names around here are masters of self-promotion. As much as we can cheer on "transparency", it isn't so selfless when it's used to farm SEO, or to fish for consulting engagements. I'm actually surprised BCC didn't go for much more simply for the pagerank value. This post has fallen off the front page, with which it will be dominated by the herd and I expect a rapid moderation influx that sees anything other that raw praise fade to transparency.
    - PopeOfNope 11y ago
      You think you're making a logical argument, but all I hear is bitterness and rhetoric. Bitterness is toxic and it drips from all of your posts in this thread. Why? You could make the same points with kinder language and get farther with this crowd than you are right now. Also, if you have logical points to make, surely you can back them up with specific examples? I'd be interested in reading what comments other people have made that you think would have been downvoted had it come from somebody else. Now that I think about it, an HN alternative without karma where everyone is anonymous would be an interesting experiment.
      - irrigation 11y ago
        This is exactly the sort of post that you find regarding quick fix solutions and Make Money Fast schemes. Don't believe in the magical cure-all nature of Trend Of The Week? So bitter and negative.
        deleted 11y ago
        [deleted]
        PopeOfNope 11y ago
        So we're supposed to be skeptical of everyone's intentions but your own? Why should we believe you over anybody else who posts here? The fact you haven't supplied any evidence but instead rely entirely on manipulating emotions flags you for what you are: a troll.
        dang 11y ago
        > what you are: a troll Please don't make threads worse by feeding comments you think are trolling. Instead, flag them and move on. To flag a comment, click on its timestamp to go to its page, then click 'flag'.
        irrigation 11y ago
        Your raw incompetence is truly boundless. The vast majority of my comments were positive until this story fell a number of pages back, when the shills appeared in full effect, you being their master. Your shadowban is pathetic. Flagging while leaving the utterly trollery of people like tptacek is...it is a marvel.
will_brown 11y ago
What is strangely bizarre it is generally the same crowd who is hyper-critical of MBA types who make decisions based purely on numbers in an attempt to maximize revenue/profit at the expensive of non-tangibles that while not reflected in P&L statements are nevertheless very real. You may be right, it may be jealousy to critique such a thing when many of those critiquing likely have never: 1. taken an idea and turned it into a viable commercial product; 2. maintained a company in the black for multiple years; or 3. sold an entire company they created from scratch. Then again when one has never done any of the three of those things and they are just seeing dollars (as you say it is magic to them anyway), it is probably very difficult to understand the inherent value in the actual experience of doing any one of those things. In the single comment I saw Patio11 write in this thread, it was very clear he gained knowledge/experience taking part in this exit and moving forward I doubt he is ever going to look back and think to himself, "gee I really made a mistake by selling BCC b/c of the opportunity cost", if anything on his future exit he will probably be thinking "this is such a larger deal by orders of magnitude, yet it is going much smoother, I am glad I have been here before."
nhangen 11y ago
I think you might be conflating skepticism with jealousy. Sure, some are probably jealous, but others might be wary of the ebook pimping that was for a time, quite prevalent here on HN, and all from the same circle of folks. If anything, I think it's preferable that the community engage in pattern matching and question where their heroes come from. It doesn't mean Patrick is a fraud, but it might mean that he's not the god everyone makes him out to be. I will admit that when I first arrived here on HN, I too believed that his 'status' was a reflection of BCC's success. The way I saw it evolve was that the consulting discussions were only made possible by the fact that BCC was touted as a model product for bootstrapping success. That could very well be my mistake, but judging by this discussion, it seems I was not the only one to make it. I think this is why so many people are surprised by the low revenue numbers. As for the sale itself...3x on a dying business is a pretty good deal if I must say so myself. Questioning the time he put into making the sale is silly. You can't put a price on peace of mind.
- tptacek 11y ago
  Looks around for ebook I've "pimped". A lot of commenters seem to have missed the fact that BCC hasn't been Patrick's primary business for over 5 years. He did a whole different product, after getting his consultancy off the ground, that is not Bingo Card Creator.
  - nhangen 11y ago
    Not you. In fact, prior to today, I wasn't aware you and Patrick were working together. I have no issues there. I'm not going to name names, but I'm pretty sure most of the community knows the few I am referring to. It just so happens that they've also been speaking at conferences, including Microconf and others like it.
    - tptacek 11y ago
      Have you bought some of these ebooks and been unhappy with them?
      - 11y ago

by oskarth 11y ago

blackoil 11y ago

Alternatively, hn crowd is not prejudiced in evaluating anything. If bill gates, jobs, Zuckerberg can be critiqued, so can be patio11

PopeOfNope 11y ago
Critiques have substance. Destructive criticism is just negativity for the sake of negativity. I do agree though, the bigger figures get their share of undeserved hate around here.
- irrigation 11y ago
  the bigger figures get their share of undeserved hate around here The bigger figures become untouchable, above reproach, around here. There are some figures who are literally toxic, but because they've become a part of the core group they can get away with it. And if you doubt or question them, you must be a troll. This is fairly normal group behavior, of course. It's a "group is its own worst enemy" behavior. It's how groups become insular and delusional and self-supporting. The identification and vilification of external enemies. Religious veneration. HN in a nutshell. It would be an interesting exercise to remove names from comments for a while and see how they do. I suspect the exercise would surprise some people. Further, some of the biggest names around here are masters of self-promotion. As much as we can cheer on "transparency", it isn't so selfless when it's used to farm SEO, or to fish for consulting engagements. I'm actually surprised BCC didn't go for much more simply for the pagerank value. This post has fallen off the front page, with which it will be dominated by the herd and I expect a rapid moderation influx that sees anything other that raw praise fade to transparency.
  - PopeOfNope 11y ago
    You think you're making a logical argument, but all I hear is bitterness and rhetoric. Bitterness is toxic and it drips from all of your posts in this thread. Why? You could make the same points with kinder language and get farther with this crowd than you are right now. Also, if you have logical points to make, surely you can back them up with specific examples? I'd be interested in reading what comments other people have made that you think would have been downvoted had it come from somebody else. Now that I think about it, an HN alternative without karma where everyone is anonymous would be an interesting experiment.
    - irrigation 11y ago
      This is exactly the sort of post that you find regarding quick fix solutions and Make Money Fast schemes. Don't believe in the magical cure-all nature of Trend Of The Week? So bitter and negative.
      - deleted 11y ago
        [deleted]
      - PopeOfNope 11y ago
        So we're supposed to be skeptical of everyone's intentions but your own? Why should we believe you over anybody else who posts here? The fact you haven't supplied any evidence but instead rely entirely on manipulating emotions flags you for what you are: a troll.
        dang 11y ago
        > what you are: a troll Please don't make threads worse by feeding comments you think are trolling. Instead, flag them and move on. To flag a comment, click on its timestamp to go to its page, then click 'flag'.
        irrigation 11y ago
        Your raw incompetence is truly boundless. The vast majority of my comments were positive until this story fell a number of pages back, when the shills appeared in full effect, you being their master. Your shadowban is pathetic. Flagging while leaving the utterly trollery of people like tptacek is...it is a marvel.

will_brown 11y ago

What is strangely bizarre it is generally the same crowd who is hyper-critical of MBA types who make decisions based purely on numbers in an attempt to maximize revenue/profit at the expensive of non-tangibles that while not reflected in P&L statements are nevertheless very real. You may be right, it may be jealousy to critique such a thing when many of those critiquing likely have never: 1. taken an idea and turned it into a viable commercial product; 2. maintained a company in the black for multiple years; or 3. sold an entire company they created from scratch. Then again when one has never done any of the three of those things and they are just seeing dollars (as you say it is magic to them anyway), it is probably very difficult to understand the inherent value in the actual experience of doing any one of those things. In the single comment I saw Patio11 write in this thread, it was very clear he gained knowledge/experience taking part in this exit and moving forward I doubt he is ever going to look back and think to himself, "gee I really made a mistake by selling BCC b/c of the opportunity cost", if anything on his future exit he will probably be thinking "this is such a larger deal by orders of magnitude, yet it is going much smoother, I am glad I have been here before."

nhangen 11y ago

I think you might be conflating skepticism with jealousy. Sure, some are probably jealous, but others might be wary of the ebook pimping that was for a time, quite prevalent here on HN, and all from the same circle of folks. If anything, I think it's preferable that the community engage in pattern matching and question where their heroes come from. It doesn't mean Patrick is a fraud, but it might mean that he's not the god everyone makes him out to be. I will admit that when I first arrived here on HN, I too believed that his 'status' was a reflection of BCC's success. The way I saw it evolve was that the consulting discussions were only made possible by the fact that BCC was touted as a model product for bootstrapping success. That could very well be my mistake, but judging by this discussion, it seems I was not the only one to make it. I think this is why so many people are surprised by the low revenue numbers. As for the sale itself...3x on a dying business is a pretty good deal if I must say so myself. Questioning the time he put into making the sale is silly. You can't put a price on peace of mind.

tptacek 11y ago
Looks around for ebook I've "pimped". A lot of commenters seem to have missed the fact that BCC hasn't been Patrick's primary business for over 5 years. He did a whole different product, after getting his consultancy off the ground, that is not Bingo Card Creator.
- nhangen 11y ago
  Not you. In fact, prior to today, I wasn't aware you and Patrick were working together. I have no issues there. I'm not going to name names, but I'm pretty sure most of the community knows the few I am referring to. It just so happens that they've also been speaking at conferences, including Microconf and others like it.
  - tptacek 11y ago
    Have you bought some of these ebooks and been unhappy with them?
    - 11y ago