4 ms·

If you can forget the 70s and 80s, GM isn't really shit. At least not as shit as Chrysler. I held onto this 'They're Shit' opinion I formed because of their 7

by kw71 11y ago

If you can forget the 70s and 80s, GM isn't really shit. At least not as shit as Chrysler. I held onto this 'They're Shit' opinion I formed because of their 70s/80s production, when Japan was actually beating their ass, and was really surprised when I started taking apart newer models and found a lot of technology and engineering thoughtfulness in them. While this ignition switch mess - the lack of a recall - is clearly the result of wrongdoing, I'd say it's not characteristic. OTOH, Toyota recklessly developed software that caused loss of human life, even when well-designed examples had been on the market for years. As software isn't like hardware manufacturing, isn't that "worse?"

bliti 11y ago
Given their hardware track record I can't assume the software is any better. I've worked with GM sensors and ECMS and they are not exactly great. Lower quality in terms of measurements and readings.
- kw71 11y ago
  That may be a result of low spec, "being years behind" (top European production) or designing for cost economy in mass production. I have noticed that one thing Delco does is to commission custom silicon with a view to saving money as millions of units are manufactured. Since additional complexity has the potential to reduce yield, why not shave bits off an ADC if the precision isn't needed? On a low spec engine, like the TBI 350cid, probably almost all of the inputs can be approximations, so the level of precision and accuracy you'd expect from buying an industrial sensor and off the shelf, discrete ADC is not necessary. And it follows that the sensors themselves should be as cheap as possible as far as it lets the engine meet the mandated goals, including a certain degree of reliability. Of course, I hope that a modern design of DOHC engine facing modern emissions regulations will be fitted with more advanced sensors and controls. The serial data link for the electronic carburetor control abomination and EFI controls is an example of the thoughtfulness that I meant. They implemented it really early, even quite earlier than the German makes I know about. It was undoubtedly priceless to have at the factory (for those cases where the factory cared - thinking on the shop floor seemed to have been a decade behind management) and would have been eminently useful in the dealership service bay if the techs had decided to make use of it.
  - bliti 11y ago
    Good points. It used to be customary for European suppliers and manufacturers to borrow from GM. I know Bosch took inspiration from gm to build their efi systems in the 70s and 80s. Systems that were put on cars like the venerable 930.
bliti 11y ago
It's definitely not characteristic of gm to build cats that have deadly issus. It ks, however, characteristic of them to build lower quality cars. That's why their resale value is so bad. You did miss the decades of the 90's and 00's. There hasn't really been a decade where in the last 45 years where GM was shined. It merely gets by. Sure, they make some cars that are good. Their average is meh. It may sound like I hate gm and American cars. Not at all. I've owned (currently own), and have made a living fom them. Cut my racing teeth with American v8s. I drool at corvettes, camaros, mustangs, challengers, etc. Modern and classic versions. Love them. But love won't stop me from comparing and seeing the differences.
- kw71 11y ago
  Yeah, GM and Ford are hit and miss with their models. I really don't like the Malibu and the Korean products GM sells. I currently own three euro sedans and a Toyota pickup. Probably should have gotten a K1500 instead of the yota. It would rust less, withstand more abuse, and I'd be able to find parts when it did break.

by kw71 11y ago

bliti 11y ago

Given their hardware track record I can't assume the software is any better. I've worked with GM sensors and ECMS and they are not exactly great. Lower quality in terms of measurements and readings.

kw71 11y ago
That may be a result of low spec, "being years behind" (top European production) or designing for cost economy in mass production. I have noticed that one thing Delco does is to commission custom silicon with a view to saving money as millions of units are manufactured. Since additional complexity has the potential to reduce yield, why not shave bits off an ADC if the precision isn't needed? On a low spec engine, like the TBI 350cid, probably almost all of the inputs can be approximations, so the level of precision and accuracy you'd expect from buying an industrial sensor and off the shelf, discrete ADC is not necessary. And it follows that the sensors themselves should be as cheap as possible as far as it lets the engine meet the mandated goals, including a certain degree of reliability. Of course, I hope that a modern design of DOHC engine facing modern emissions regulations will be fitted with more advanced sensors and controls. The serial data link for the electronic carburetor control abomination and EFI controls is an example of the thoughtfulness that I meant. They implemented it really early, even quite earlier than the German makes I know about. It was undoubtedly priceless to have at the factory (for those cases where the factory cared - thinking on the shop floor seemed to have been a decade behind management) and would have been eminently useful in the dealership service bay if the techs had decided to make use of it.
- bliti 11y ago
  Good points. It used to be customary for European suppliers and manufacturers to borrow from GM. I know Bosch took inspiration from gm to build their efi systems in the 70s and 80s. Systems that were put on cars like the venerable 930.

bliti 11y ago

It's definitely not characteristic of gm to build cats that have deadly issus. It ks, however, characteristic of them to build lower quality cars. That's why their resale value is so bad. You did miss the decades of the 90's and 00's. There hasn't really been a decade where in the last 45 years where GM was shined. It merely gets by. Sure, they make some cars that are good. Their average is meh. It may sound like I hate gm and American cars. Not at all. I've owned (currently own), and have made a living fom them. Cut my racing teeth with American v8s. I drool at corvettes, camaros, mustangs, challengers, etc. Modern and classic versions. Love them. But love won't stop me from comparing and seeing the differences.

kw71 11y ago
Yeah, GM and Ford are hit and miss with their models. I really don't like the Malibu and the Korean products GM sells. I currently own three euro sedans and a Toyota pickup. Probably should have gotten a K1500 instead of the yota. It would rust less, withstand more abuse, and I'd be able to find parts when it did break.