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Ask HN: Are three years enough time to provide modified GPL'd source code?

8 points by carlosdf 11y ago

TL;DR Asked ZyXEL about my 3 year old router firmware source code and they gave me the finger. Long story: Recently I asked ZyXEL to release the firmware source code of ZyXEL P-660HNU-F1 router which contains GPL'd software. I used the company online form to do this: http://www.zyxel.com/us/en/form/gpl_oss_form.shtml I asked for the source code of the latest version of the firmware which is: 3.10(VBH.0)C0 This version is from Oct 9, 2011 which is more than 3 years old. ZyXEL response was this: Dear Sir/Madam: Thank you for choosing ZyXEL products, and Sorry for inform you below messages. According to GPLv2 license terms (below black frame ) and ZyXEL policy that we will keep each firmware’s Open Source Code at least three years. However, we released 3.10(VBH.0)C0 over three years , so we don’t have open source code can provide for you. Sorry for any inconvenience. From my understanding, according to GPLv2 and GPLv3, you have to provide the source code if asked for at least 3 years since the last binary release. The point is, are three years time enough to provide modifications from GPL´d code? They still provide the firmware, I don´t know if they still support the router. But I think that the GPL license should be updated in this regards. Source code should be provided over the Internet and as long as they provide the binary, they should provide the source code as well. And no body releases source code on a physical support... Am I right?

informatimago 11y ago
I agree that the GPL is a little weak. Notably, when it was first conceived, memories were much smaller, and it was difficult to ask embedding the sources in the same memory as the binary. But nowadays, this could be a requirement, even bypassing the internet distribution requirement. Nowadays, physical devices could have all their design files and source code embedded into them and easily accessible for ulterior maintainance.
some_furry 11y ago
Where does this 3 years rule come from? IANAL but I never saw that in the text.
- carlosdf 11y ago
  http://www.gnu.org/licenses/old-licenses/gpl-2.0.en.html http://www.gnu.org/licenses/old-licenses/gpl-2.0.en.html Section 3 b) Accompany it with a written offer, valid for at least three years, to give any third party, for a charge no more than your cost of physically performing source distribution, a complete machine-readable copy of the corresponding source code, to be distributed under the terms of Sections 1 and 2 above on a medium customarily used for software interchange; or,
belorn 11y ago
The 3 year is at the point of distribution, so each time they distribute the software to a person (ie, at the point of someone purchasing the router), they got give a written offer that is valid for 3 year from that point in time. So saying that they released the software 3 years ago doesn't mean anything for staying in compliance with the license. It has to be 3 years since the router was sold to you.
- carlosdf 11y ago
  You are right, I´m going to answer back. Thanks!
  - carlosdf 11y ago
    Got a ftp link to download the firmware source code, it´s suuuper slow, but it´s working.
brudgers 11y ago
To me, three years does not seem completely unreasonable. Sure they could do better, and may be a judge might decide they should. But if you want businesses to adopt GPL, then treating your situation as unfortunate but not malicious might be the better play in the long run. If you aren't willing to lawyer up, then let it go or just Google up the software from elsewhere. Life will be better. Good luck.
- carlosdf 11y ago
  Nothing in Google appears for this particular firmware/router. But I guess I can find the source code for recent/similar ZyXEL routers firmware.
teddyh 11y ago
GPL gives ZyXEL the option of giving you, the customer, “a written offer, valid for at least three years” to deliver the source code (option b in section 3 of the GPL). Did you get such an offer with your router? If not, then ZyXEL cannot have chosen this option which GPL gave them, and must, in theory, either not be in compliance with the license or have given the source code with the router (option a). (Option c is only for noncommercial distribution.) If you do have such an offer, is it still valid?