6 ms·

Do people want TTIP? Nope.(http://goo.gl/FD145h http://goo.gl/FD145h) Do people want pesticides? Nope. (https://goo.gl/AQNdZv https://goo.gl/AQNdZv) So what is

Do people want TTIP? Nope.(http://goo.gl/FD145h http://goo.gl/FD145h) Do people want pesticides? Nope. (https://goo.gl/AQNdZv https://goo.gl/AQNdZv) So what is the problem?

glandium 11y ago
> So what is the problem? People.
danbruc 11y ago
Do people want TTIP? Nope. That's (sadly) (possibly) not true. I thought it would be scandalous if Europeans didn't want TTIP and they just ignored the people and continued negotiating. But then I found this chart [1] and in almost every country the majority is for a trade agreement. I don't know if the numbers are wrong, if people are uninformed or if they just don't care, but if the numbers are correct then it all is just democratic, the majority wins, whether I or you like it or not. [1] http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/01/29/is-europe-on-board-for-a-new-trade-deal-with-the-u-s/ http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/01/29/is-europe-on...
- taejo 11y ago
  Those survey results show people who are "for a free trade and investment agreement between the EU and the USA" -- not those who are for this trade agreement; the objections to TTIP are arguably not about the freedom of trade and investment.
  - minot 11y ago
    Exactly. How am I supposed to say whether I like it or not when I don't know what "it" is? Lets leave surprises for company pot luck lunches. Would any elected official dare ask the same about the legislative process? Isn't a trade agreement that sets precedent as legislation the opposite of a participatory democracy? It just makes no sense. How can they have things like TPP and TTIP and still complain about the lack of involvement in politics by ordinary folks?
- hhjj 11y ago
  They support a free trade agreement, it doesn't specifically tells about TTIP that may not be a free trade agreement since anyway almost nobody knows what's in it.
- inDigiNeous 11y ago
  In Finland at least this agreement and it's harmful effects are widely known, at least relatively when talking about pushing new laws. And there have been numerous demonstrations against the agreement, and petitions calling to not let it pass. But they just keep pushing it.
chki 11y ago
I'm a citizen of Germany (and consider myself to be Eu-Citizen as well) and I'm in favor of a trade agreement. Of course you have to debate about certain points but I would personally live in the US or in Europe and would e.G. accept both food regulations. I think there are many people in the US and in Europe with a similar mindset.
- allendoerfer 11y ago
  I think so, too. My concern is that regulation can not advance because it would brake the treaty by losing the unification of standards. The EU can not agree with Washington either, because it is not responsible in most cases. My understanding is, that the EU and the US are organized in the direct opposite way: In the US, Washington is responsible for the military and so on while every state has its own laws for protecting the environment or license plates and stuff like this. The EU tries to agree on standards for these things and has very limited rights in topics like foreign policies. And I would hate to lose in a secret court against Phillip Morris.
- tomelders 11y ago
  Genuine question: what trade agreements do we already have in place? Im not clear on what's wrong with the way things are right now.
Istof 11y ago
but perhaps they need to develop new production methods to avoid the use of pesticides, otherwise, there might not be enough food for everybody? try to grow a garden if you haven't yet

Do people want TTIP? Nope.(http://goo.gl/FD145h http://goo.gl/FD145h) Do people want pesticides? Nope. (https://goo.gl/AQNdZv https://goo.gl/AQNdZv) So what is the problem?

glandium 11y ago

> So what is the problem? People.

danbruc 11y ago

Do people want TTIP? Nope. That's (sadly) (possibly) not true. I thought it would be scandalous if Europeans didn't want TTIP and they just ignored the people and continued negotiating. But then I found this chart [1] and in almost every country the majority is for a trade agreement. I don't know if the numbers are wrong, if people are uninformed or if they just don't care, but if the numbers are correct then it all is just democratic, the majority wins, whether I or you like it or not. [1] http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/01/29/is-europe-on-board-for-a-new-trade-deal-with-the-u-s/ http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/01/29/is-europe-on...

taejo 11y ago
Those survey results show people who are "for a free trade and investment agreement between the EU and the USA" -- not those who are for this trade agreement; the objections to TTIP are arguably not about the freedom of trade and investment.
- minot 11y ago
  Exactly. How am I supposed to say whether I like it or not when I don't know what "it" is? Lets leave surprises for company pot luck lunches. Would any elected official dare ask the same about the legislative process? Isn't a trade agreement that sets precedent as legislation the opposite of a participatory democracy? It just makes no sense. How can they have things like TPP and TTIP and still complain about the lack of involvement in politics by ordinary folks?
hhjj 11y ago
They support a free trade agreement, it doesn't specifically tells about TTIP that may not be a free trade agreement since anyway almost nobody knows what's in it.
inDigiNeous 11y ago
In Finland at least this agreement and it's harmful effects are widely known, at least relatively when talking about pushing new laws. And there have been numerous demonstrations against the agreement, and petitions calling to not let it pass. But they just keep pushing it.

chki 11y ago

I'm a citizen of Germany (and consider myself to be Eu-Citizen as well) and I'm in favor of a trade agreement. Of course you have to debate about certain points but I would personally live in the US or in Europe and would e.G. accept both food regulations. I think there are many people in the US and in Europe with a similar mindset.

allendoerfer 11y ago
I think so, too. My concern is that regulation can not advance because it would brake the treaty by losing the unification of standards. The EU can not agree with Washington either, because it is not responsible in most cases. My understanding is, that the EU and the US are organized in the direct opposite way: In the US, Washington is responsible for the military and so on while every state has its own laws for protecting the environment or license plates and stuff like this. The EU tries to agree on standards for these things and has very limited rights in topics like foreign policies. And I would hate to lose in a secret court against Phillip Morris.
tomelders 11y ago
Genuine question: what trade agreements do we already have in place? Im not clear on what's wrong with the way things are right now.

Istof 11y ago

but perhaps they need to develop new production methods to avoid the use of pesticides, otherwise, there might not be enough food for everybody? try to grow a garden if you haven't yet