5 ms·

Yeah, I ran a team like this. I was able to attract the best of the best and built a solid team, but the incentive was to hire some people that weren't as good

Yeah, I ran a team like this. I was able to attract the best of the best and built a solid team, but the incentive was to hire some people that weren't as good so they could give you somewhere to throw the 10%'s. It's awful because a lot of those people still work hard and are reasonably good at their job, no one wins. I was fortunate that a partner team had a lot of low-performers and I got a little break when we combined curves. That said, I'm skeptical that the stack rank system is gone, based on what I hear from those that are still there (I've been out for many years now). It sounds like a lot of the same curve-fitting is just renamed.

steven777400 11y ago
When I was offered a position at Microsoft, I declined in part because, after the interview, I was concerned they were precisely looking to hire someone to be the "fall guy" for the team (this was while stack ranking was still in effect). Now I'm by no means a great developer (as one of my Microsoft-employed friends brutally said about my declining, "No loss for Microsoft"), but I imagine this concern could scare away genuinely good developers too worried that the politics of "keeping the team together" would outweigh any actual individual contribution they'd make.
- darkengine 11y ago
  > as one of my Microsoft-employed friends brutally said about my declining, "No loss for Microsoft" That's a pretty poor thing to say to a friend.
  - pmelendez 11y ago
    > to say to a friend. I would review his definition of a friend... I'd say that was a very poor thing to say even for an acquaintance.
- x0054 11y ago
  You might want to reconsider your friends.
  - lmm 11y ago
    A friend who cares enough to tell you when you suck is worth their weight in gold.
    - S4M 11y ago
      I agree with you, but he could have said "I honestly don't think you know enough X to be really useful for Microsoft."
    - sandrae 11y ago
      The friend said "No loss for Microsoft", showing that he cares about Microsoft. A real friend might have said "From my perspective you could improve as a programmer. Your weakest point is field x and therefore I recommend that you read the following book."
    - fsloth 11y ago
      I don't think so in the general context, unles the relationship is close and you can say anything to each other without hurt feelings. Saying a person sucks is pretty pointless without a detailed performance review, identifying a few key points to improve in the next span (of months/years) and keeping tabs on progress. Usually saying someone sucks in general is pointless demotivation and hurts feelings without purpose. Identifying specific sucky aspects in ones work and suggesting helpfull improvements is beneficial, if requested.
    - x0054 11y ago
      I think the OP knows that he isn't all that awesome at programming. As a friend, I don't go around pointing out to my friends weaknesses in their person they them selves are well aware of. In this situation the friend could have said something like "Oh, that's a good idea that you passed on that job, you are week in that area, and they were probably looking to hire you as a sacrificial lamb." A statement like that shows that a person is your real friend. They are acknowledging your weaknesses, but with the goal of helping you in the end of the day, not the company.

steven777400 11y ago

When I was offered a position at Microsoft, I declined in part because, after the interview, I was concerned they were precisely looking to hire someone to be the "fall guy" for the team (this was while stack ranking was still in effect). Now I'm by no means a great developer (as one of my Microsoft-employed friends brutally said about my declining, "No loss for Microsoft"), but I imagine this concern could scare away genuinely good developers too worried that the politics of "keeping the team together" would outweigh any actual individual contribution they'd make.

darkengine 11y ago
> as one of my Microsoft-employed friends brutally said about my declining, "No loss for Microsoft" That's a pretty poor thing to say to a friend.
- pmelendez 11y ago
  > to say to a friend. I would review his definition of a friend... I'd say that was a very poor thing to say even for an acquaintance.
x0054 11y ago
You might want to reconsider your friends.
- lmm 11y ago
  A friend who cares enough to tell you when you suck is worth their weight in gold.
  - S4M 11y ago
    I agree with you, but he could have said "I honestly don't think you know enough X to be really useful for Microsoft."
  - sandrae 11y ago
    The friend said "No loss for Microsoft", showing that he cares about Microsoft. A real friend might have said "From my perspective you could improve as a programmer. Your weakest point is field x and therefore I recommend that you read the following book."
  - fsloth 11y ago
    I don't think so in the general context, unles the relationship is close and you can say anything to each other without hurt feelings. Saying a person sucks is pretty pointless without a detailed performance review, identifying a few key points to improve in the next span (of months/years) and keeping tabs on progress. Usually saying someone sucks in general is pointless demotivation and hurts feelings without purpose. Identifying specific sucky aspects in ones work and suggesting helpfull improvements is beneficial, if requested.
  - x0054 11y ago
    I think the OP knows that he isn't all that awesome at programming. As a friend, I don't go around pointing out to my friends weaknesses in their person they them selves are well aware of. In this situation the friend could have said something like "Oh, that's a good idea that you passed on that job, you are week in that area, and they were probably looking to hire you as a sacrificial lamb." A statement like that shows that a person is your real friend. They are acknowledging your weaknesses, but with the goal of helping you in the end of the day, not the company.