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The fact that the conflicts of today are much much smaller (by any measure you choose to use) than those of last century is a WONDERFUL THING. It's not crazy. I

by harryh 11y ago

The fact that the conflicts of today are much much smaller (by any measure you choose to use) than those of last century is a WONDERFUL THING. It's not crazy. It's AWESOME. Fewer people are dying or being injured. It's costing less money. Fewer people's lived are impacted. It's one of the biggest areas of progress for mankind. Celebrate it!

angersock 11y ago
As shown elsewhere, especially from the American side, this is simply not true. Your assertion about fewer people's lives being impacted is also quite false--just look at any airport on holiday. This is no progress at all. Instead, we've gotten to the point where we can maintain any number of flashpoints we like, at any time, with any amount of media coverage desired, and all without ever having to have a useful policy discussion about it with our citizens. The thing about the large wars of the past? After a while the citizenry lost their taste for it, because it cost them directly. Our current state of affairs is, sadly, not evolving in that direction.
- harryh 11y ago
  Having to trudge through slightly more annoying security is vastly different than 400,000 Americans (give or take) that died in combat during WW2. I by no means am saying things are perfect, but if you can't see progress in this chart than you're holding your hands over your eyes: http://d35brb9zkkbdsd.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/Pinker.jpg http://d35brb9zkkbdsd.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2013... It's Maslow's hierarchy of needs man. We're doing a hell of a lot better on the bottom level of the pyramid. It's gonna take some time to work it's way up to the top.
  - angersock 11y ago
    We're just going to have to agree to disagree.
    - harryh 11y ago
      There are still people out there who think the world is flat or that we faked the moon landing. I'll happily agree to disagree with them as well.
      - angersock 11y ago
        At least those people aren't standing on a pile of corpses, cheering for more.
reitzensteinm 11y ago
This is true only if the effects are symmetrical. If we're barely feeling the effects and our opponents are in agony, that's not a step forward, as we have no motivation to end the conflict and the total suffering may actually increase.
- harryh 11y ago
  The effects are symmetrical: http://d35brb9zkkbdsd.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/Pinker.jpg http://d35brb9zkkbdsd.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2013...
barsonme 11y ago
Don't take it wrong! I love that we're decreasing the number of deaths. I hope and pray the wars continue to dwindle and become smaller. But I also hope people _feel_ the effects of wars. If wars are painless for us, save for the few who lose loved ones, then it becomes so easy to ignore just how terrible they are.

by harryh 11y ago

angersock 11y ago

As shown elsewhere, especially from the American side, this is simply not true. Your assertion about fewer people's lives being impacted is also quite false--just look at any airport on holiday. This is no progress at all. Instead, we've gotten to the point where we can maintain any number of flashpoints we like, at any time, with any amount of media coverage desired, and all without ever having to have a useful policy discussion about it with our citizens. The thing about the large wars of the past? After a while the citizenry lost their taste for it, because it cost them directly. Our current state of affairs is, sadly, not evolving in that direction.

harryh 11y ago
Having to trudge through slightly more annoying security is vastly different than 400,000 Americans (give or take) that died in combat during WW2. I by no means am saying things are perfect, but if you can't see progress in this chart than you're holding your hands over your eyes: http://d35brb9zkkbdsd.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/Pinker.jpg http://d35brb9zkkbdsd.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2013... It's Maslow's hierarchy of needs man. We're doing a hell of a lot better on the bottom level of the pyramid. It's gonna take some time to work it's way up to the top.
- angersock 11y ago
  We're just going to have to agree to disagree.
  - harryh 11y ago
    There are still people out there who think the world is flat or that we faked the moon landing. I'll happily agree to disagree with them as well.
    - angersock 11y ago
      At least those people aren't standing on a pile of corpses, cheering for more.

reitzensteinm 11y ago

This is true only if the effects are symmetrical. If we're barely feeling the effects and our opponents are in agony, that's not a step forward, as we have no motivation to end the conflict and the total suffering may actually increase.

harryh 11y ago
The effects are symmetrical: http://d35brb9zkkbdsd.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/Pinker.jpg http://d35brb9zkkbdsd.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2013...

barsonme 11y ago

Don't take it wrong! I love that we're decreasing the number of deaths. I hope and pray the wars continue to dwindle and become smaller. But I also hope people _feel_ the effects of wars. If wars are painless for us, save for the few who lose loved ones, then it becomes so easy to ignore just how terrible they are.