5 ms·

The fact that an ad is custom tailored to you is concerning in and of itself...

by ahuth 11y ago

manigandham 11y ago
but people whine when they see ads that are not to their interests either. there is no way to win.
- thesimpsons1022 11y ago
  advertise me computer shit cuz I'm on HN. don't store all my data and track me and store it in insecure databases which you handover to despots.
  - manigandham 11y ago
    Ad networks only store about 30-60 days of data. Beyond that it's not relevant and sometimes cookies have already been lost so it wont match up anyway. Either way, you're just a randomized ID number with some interest categories attached. If you're worried about your entire history being used, I'd point to social networks like Facebook/Twitter/Google that have far more info, including personal details, and keep it permanently. If you are worried about privacy, read the ToS of those services very careful and either opt-out or delete your information because that's a whole different level to what most ad networks have.
- Qantourisc 11y ago
  There is: a browser switch/standard: "ask ad-providers to personalize ads" / "use generic ads". Getting anyone to honour that is going to be a big problem though. So we have to implement that on the client side, by privacy protecting measures. (Not sure how at the moment.)
  - manigandham 11y ago
    There is also something that keeps being lost in this: identity and tracking are different things. Opt-out is a preference setting of an identity, and networks store this preference just like they store history and interests. By disabling 3rd party cookies and scripts, it disables the saving of any opt-out status as well, which btw, is actually mandated by certain laws and regulations so it's not all wild west here. For anyone who wants an opt-out, here it is: http://www.youradchoices.com/ http://www.youradchoices.com/
- throwaway2048 11y ago
  That's quite the false dichotomy you have set yourself up there, i bet it provides all the justification you need to track people without their knowledge or consent.
  - manigandham 11y ago
    That's quite a big inference you made from just a few words. Where am I proposing tracking without knowledge or consent? The dichotomy is either you have generalized ads or they're targeted closely to you. What is false about this?
    - throwaway2048 11y ago
      no, your false dichotomy was "either we track people or they complain about irrelevant ads". Note the juxtaposition of imagined agency on part of the user, they supposedly complain a lot about it and want it changed right? So the solution is tracking! Also some vauge language burried 40 pages into a EULA isn't knowledge or consent.
      - manigandham 11y ago
        You're attaching your opinions to something I never wrote. If you read my first comment and it's parent again, you'll see that the generalized vs targeted situation is exactly what I'm talking about and no more or less. There is no falsity there, you can have one or the other. How this is actually implemented is not something I ever wrote about nor is HN really the place for it. There are some contextual based options other than tracking user behaviors but at the end of the day, yes tracking is how you get to the most targeted information. This is used in more than just ads by the way, everything from your search results to emails to music/video services to any other place you get recommendations is personalized to you. And the vast majority of the population has time and again shown they have more interest in the end result of better content for them than the collection of anonymized information. Do you have a better solution? How would you provide targeted ads that match people's interests and intent without any tracking? And please don't say you just don't want ads or that sites should just figure out a different way to get paid. This is a serious question because it's not like the industry has just been sitting around wondering, so if you have a better idea it would be helpful and there are lots of companies willing to hear it. Last thing re: EULA. I'm sorry but I have to disagree. Legal agreements do not become void because you signed a big contract and then claim it's too long or you didn't actually read it. And yes, signatures are not required for agreement and acceptance to be binding. These documents do not exist for convenience and the long length with all the complex edge case wording is precisely because standard language is so often contested by anyone who suddenly feels like they no longer want it to apply.

The fact that an ad is custom tailored to you is concerning in and of itself...

by ahuth 11y ago

The fact that an ad is custom tailored to you is concerning in and of itself...

manigandham 11y ago

but people whine when they see ads that are not to their interests either. there is no way to win.

thesimpsons1022 11y ago
advertise me computer shit cuz I'm on HN. don't store all my data and track me and store it in insecure databases which you handover to despots.
- manigandham 11y ago
  Ad networks only store about 30-60 days of data. Beyond that it's not relevant and sometimes cookies have already been lost so it wont match up anyway. Either way, you're just a randomized ID number with some interest categories attached. If you're worried about your entire history being used, I'd point to social networks like Facebook/Twitter/Google that have far more info, including personal details, and keep it permanently. If you are worried about privacy, read the ToS of those services very careful and either opt-out or delete your information because that's a whole different level to what most ad networks have.
Qantourisc 11y ago
There is: a browser switch/standard: "ask ad-providers to personalize ads" / "use generic ads". Getting anyone to honour that is going to be a big problem though. So we have to implement that on the client side, by privacy protecting measures. (Not sure how at the moment.)
- manigandham 11y ago
  There is also something that keeps being lost in this: identity and tracking are different things. Opt-out is a preference setting of an identity, and networks store this preference just like they store history and interests. By disabling 3rd party cookies and scripts, it disables the saving of any opt-out status as well, which btw, is actually mandated by certain laws and regulations so it's not all wild west here. For anyone who wants an opt-out, here it is: http://www.youradchoices.com/ http://www.youradchoices.com/
throwaway2048 11y ago
That's quite the false dichotomy you have set yourself up there, i bet it provides all the justification you need to track people without their knowledge or consent.
- manigandham 11y ago
  That's quite a big inference you made from just a few words. Where am I proposing tracking without knowledge or consent? The dichotomy is either you have generalized ads or they're targeted closely to you. What is false about this?
  - throwaway2048 11y ago
    no, your false dichotomy was "either we track people or they complain about irrelevant ads". Note the juxtaposition of imagined agency on part of the user, they supposedly complain a lot about it and want it changed right? So the solution is tracking! Also some vauge language burried 40 pages into a EULA isn't knowledge or consent.
    - manigandham 11y ago
      You're attaching your opinions to something I never wrote. If you read my first comment and it's parent again, you'll see that the generalized vs targeted situation is exactly what I'm talking about and no more or less. There is no falsity there, you can have one or the other. How this is actually implemented is not something I ever wrote about nor is HN really the place for it. There are some contextual based options other than tracking user behaviors but at the end of the day, yes tracking is how you get to the most targeted information. This is used in more than just ads by the way, everything from your search results to emails to music/video services to any other place you get recommendations is personalized to you. And the vast majority of the population has time and again shown they have more interest in the end result of better content for them than the collection of anonymized information. Do you have a better solution? How would you provide targeted ads that match people's interests and intent without any tracking? And please don't say you just don't want ads or that sites should just figure out a different way to get paid. This is a serious question because it's not like the industry has just been sitting around wondering, so if you have a better idea it would be helpful and there are lots of companies willing to hear it. Last thing re: EULA. I'm sorry but I have to disagree. Legal agreements do not become void because you signed a big contract and then claim it's too long or you didn't actually read it. And yes, signatures are not required for agreement and acceptance to be binding. These documents do not exist for convenience and the long length with all the complex edge case wording is precisely because standard language is so often contested by anyone who suddenly feels like they no longer want it to apply.