4 ms·

What If Everybody Didn't Have to Work to Get Paid?

8 points by Audiophilip 11y ago

bikamonki 11y ago
This cause is based on the wrong assumption: products and services are NOT getting more expensive (aside from health care and housing but I predict those too will become more affordable thanks to bots). And it is precisely b/c of automation that prices go down (the fact that you pay hundreds for an iPhone that costs tens to make has more to do with you being a victim of marketing and less to do with robots making the phone). Also, b/c many products and services that we now consume are digital (zero real cost of 'making' a copy) we need less money each month to consume them. Also, not to be surprised: good healthy home cooked meals are über cheap. And don't ignore this trend: the sharing economy. In sum: as everything commoditizes and we share products and services, we need less money to live. Maybe then what we need is to share jobs (work partime) and control personal expenses, until we reach Jacque Fresco's Resource Based Economy (google The Venus Project, b/c guess what, searching, finding and learning new information is nowadays almost always free!). So pleeeease don't ask for a free basic income, I certainly don't want to pay more taxes ;)
- JoeAltmaier 11y ago
  I was surprised at that conclusion. The rise of robots creating goods means we will be forced into a basic income at some point. Or let jobless people starve I guess. And its not at all assured that you will have to pay more taxes. The basic income could come from any number of places, like corporate automation tariffs (let the robots pay for it!) or even printing more money.
  - bikamonki 11y ago
    That is a very 'utopian' view. Changes are gradual. Even if we do invent perfect bots to manufacture and provide services, the capital expenses to acquire them will be huge, tons of business will take decades to adopt them. Until then good old human labor will do. Have you seen a travel agency lately? Is milk delievered to your door step? Jobs disappear, new jobs are invented. We are ever getting more specialized. What will happen is less dramatic and it is something we have always done in the past: we will adapt, gradually.
    - JoeAltmaier 11y ago
      Ever more specialized == fewer and fewer people needed to work at all. New jobs are invented at the rate of 1 for 10; 9 people are out of work. The Pollyanna view that jobs will appear by magic, in exactly the right number for the population, is a 'utopian' view.

8 points by Audiophilip 11y ago

This cause is based on the wrong assumption: products and services are NOT getting more expensive (aside from health care and housing but I predict those too will become more affordable thanks to bots). And it is precisely b/c of automation that prices go down (the fact that you pay hundreds for an iPhone that costs tens to make has more to do with you being a victim of marketing and less to do with robots making the phone). Also, b/c many products and services that we now consume are digital (zero real cost of 'making' a copy) we need less money each month to consume them. Also, not to be surprised: good healthy home cooked meals are über cheap. And don't ignore this trend: the sharing economy. In sum: as everything commoditizes and we share products and services, we need less money to live. Maybe then what we need is to share jobs (work partime) and control personal expenses, until we reach Jacque Fresco's Resource Based Economy (google The Venus Project, b/c guess what, searching, finding and learning new information is nowadays almost always free!). So pleeeease don't ask for a free basic income, I certainly don't want to pay more taxes ;)

JoeAltmaier 11y ago
I was surprised at that conclusion. The rise of robots creating goods means we will be forced into a basic income at some point. Or let jobless people starve I guess. And its not at all assured that you will have to pay more taxes. The basic income could come from any number of places, like corporate automation tariffs (let the robots pay for it!) or even printing more money.
- bikamonki 11y ago
  That is a very 'utopian' view. Changes are gradual. Even if we do invent perfect bots to manufacture and provide services, the capital expenses to acquire them will be huge, tons of business will take decades to adopt them. Until then good old human labor will do. Have you seen a travel agency lately? Is milk delievered to your door step? Jobs disappear, new jobs are invented. We are ever getting more specialized. What will happen is less dramatic and it is something we have always done in the past: we will adapt, gradually.
  - JoeAltmaier 11y ago
    Ever more specialized == fewer and fewer people needed to work at all. New jobs are invented at the rate of 1 for 10; 9 people are out of work. The Pollyanna view that jobs will appear by magic, in exactly the right number for the population, is a 'utopian' view.