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I have been considering going back to help the Kurds fight ISIS for some time now. I want to say stories like this highlight the urgency of the situation, but i

I have been considering going back to help the Kurds fight ISIS for some time now. I want to say stories like this highlight the urgency of the situation, but in the face of all the murder happening in areas controlled by the dark army of Mordor, it would make me appear to have the wrong priorities. ISIS needs to be destroyed.

seivan 11y ago
My father have friends working in the IDP camps. There are plenty of Kurdish doctors from Sweden going there, doing abortions on 9 year olds. Some don't survive. The thing ISIS did to the Yezidis.. the children, the female ones. It would kill your insides and want to set the world on fire. In fact, it wasn't just ISIS, but their Sunni muslim neighbours. As soon as they heard ISIS were nearby, they started killing their Yezidi neighbours, raping their daughters on the streets. There were mattresses and used condoms lying on the streets when the HPG (Yezidi militia) came back to Sinjar... grim scenes. It wasn't 3 or 4, but systematic abuse on thousands. Christians (Assyrians) weren't spared either, but not as many as 7000 Yezidis females captive since last summer. The male children are being used as human shields and sucide bombers. The female (down to the age of 6) are being sold on sex-slave markets. Edit: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2015/05/22/islamic-state-burned-a-woman-alive-for-not-engaging-in-an-extreme-sex-act-u-n-official-says/ http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2015/05/22... "They commit rape, sexual slavery, forced prostitution and other acts of extreme brutality. We heard one case of a 20-year-old girl who was burned alive because she refused to perform an extreme sex act. We learned of many other sadistic sexual acts. We struggled to understand the mentality of people who commit such crimes." Set the world on fire.
- ISL 11y ago
  Don't set the world on fire. Be a bastion for good in the world.
  - waps 11y ago
    This story is remniscent of the 1948 Israel war of independance which was also full of stories about neighbours suddenly being given the change to rape, steal and pillage. One can only hope it ends in exactly the same way : 5 more Israels in the middle east. A Yezidi one. An Assyrian one. A Shi'a one. You can say whatever you want to say but this islam is an ideology which is centrally focused on it's supposed superiority and the focus is the reason for this superiority : that allah will guarantee military victory. Walk near any large station in a large Western European city and you can find out for yourself (if you look the least bit dark you will find out even if you don't want to, they'll walk up to you and ask). Paris - Gare du Nord, Brussels North, Amsterdam, ... you should go to Syria and fight and kill. Feign minimal intrest and you get to find out more. Why - because allah will make you win and we'll finally punish the infidels, and everybody you hate. They'll provide a wife, and openly talk about their "attitude" to captured women - what allah "allows". The main counterargument you hear on that street - it's not a way to victory, it's a way to death. I don't know about if this is similar in America. Does anyone have similar experiences in, say, New York ? Given where the recruitment happens in Western Europe and how successful it is in these western states, I find it extremely difficult to believe that this ISIS will remain confined to the middle east. I am terrified what will happen in Western Europe in the large cities if ISIS appears to become more successful. This ideology needs to die, if we are to have peace.
    - selimthegrim 11y ago
      Why are European Muslims (admittedly the sad, hopeless losers) falling into this trap? Could it be a lack of civic, constitutional nationalism and Habermassian public civil religion as opposed to bog-standard ethnocracies?
      - azth 11y ago
        It goes without saying that what ISIS is doing is against the teachings of Islam. What's happening is that they are making propaganda to the uneducated people who "have nothing to lose". They tell them to go carry weapons, fight for glory, and they'll be rewarded with Heaven. Pretty good deal to get out of their circumstances, right? The fact remains though that what they preach is not of Islam.
- comrade1 11y ago
  Why did they use condoms?
  - actcutemonster 11y ago
    Some of the Islamists had western education, they were from the UK or Denmark. There are reports of them asking their friends and supporters to send condoms. Many of them have diseases and share victims. Majority didn't use condoms given the reports from the refugee camps.
    - comrade1 11y ago
      Sounds like more of the same. Exaggeration and propaganda from both sides to raise emotion and get people that have nothing to do with the fight to commit to kill. The people of the region don't even want to fight this battle.
- thomasz 11y ago
  FYI, HPG is the armed wing of the PKK, not a Yezidi militia.
  - seivan 11y ago
    My bad, YBS. Getting hard to keep track of acronyms.
toomuchtodo 11y ago
What would be most helpful in defeating ISIS? Equipment? More manpower? Logistical support?
- seivan 11y ago
  Equipment. So far most of the US gear goes to ISIS. You'd think I'd be over-exaggerating, but just last weekend US equipment (eg Humvees) that went to the Shia militia also known as Iraq "army" (ISF) was left while back while they abandoned Ramadi so ISIS could get in. Not the first time the Iraqi "army" does that. The Peshmerga desperately need Anti-Tank/IED gear. So far they are relying on MILANs from Germany. They have enough trained soldiers and experienced soldiers from old wars to tackle ISIS, but they are working with some really old weapons. I've seen snipers using old ww2 rifles. No joke. From what I understand there is a bill at congress (pushed by the Republicans) to arm the Peshmerga (Kurdistan) directly instead of relying on Baghdad (HAH!) to give the the kurds their 10% share. Not sure if it has passed yet. Essentially the Iraqi "Army" has failed, the only thing that is stable in Iraq is the "Gold Division", essentially their Special Forces. They are pretty effective at holding ISIS at bay, but have endured heavy casualties because of the Militia/Army incompetence. The Shia militia can't hold their grounds... except when it comes to abusing Sunni civilians. Iraq doesn't exist anymore. It's now Iran... the US is arming Iran 😂. Let that sink in.
  - ajmurmann 11y ago
    That sounds to me like Equipment is not what's needed, since there is hardly anyone reliable we can give the equipment to. How about deploying a few millions soldiers? A few million sounds like a unreasonably large number, but on the other hand there were 4 million soldiers in Stalingrad alone and we should be able to treat this situation as urgently as things were handled in WWII. To me ISIS is right up there with the Nazis. So let's go all out and get this done with!
    - rdl 11y ago
      The Kurds, at least in Iraq, have consistently been friends of the US, and at least compared to the other states in the region, a basically progressive and moderate government. (There are issues with Turkey and Iran w.r.t. Kurds in those countries as well as with the idea of Kurdistan, since it would potentially redraw their own borders.) Aside from some very specialized troops (combat controllers and maybe some other SOF; high level logistics people to interface with the rest of the supply chain; some trainers and advisors) you could probably equip the Kurdish forces with modern weapons to good effect. The biggest issue is bypassing the Iraqi central government basically admits that Iraq is/was/will always be a failure, and guarantees it. This might cause both Iran and KSA to intervene in the territory. This could lead to escalation; I'd personally be willing to accept the status quo in Syria if the alternative is a regional war.
rdl 11y ago
I'd be concerned about ITAR and other issues (less so as an individual fighter, but that isn't really what the Kurds need -- what they need are the kind of resources companies or organizations could provide.) All it would take to clear this up would be a letter of marque.
- toomuchtodo 11y ago
  I admit I had to lookup "letter of marque" on wikipedia, but find it to be an interesting idea.
- angersock 11y ago
  Ah, Blackwater rides again!
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
jmspring 11y ago
It is horrible. That said, we saw the same concern and destruction of historical artifacts with the Taliban in Afghanistan.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
comrade1 11y ago
The Iraqi Shiites and Kurdish Christian/shiites should be fighting Isis. Saddam (a Sunni himself) kept the Sunni radicals in check for decades. If the people of the region won't do it or even try why should you? It's like the u.s. never learns and keeps getting taken advantage of by people that don't even align with their beliefs.
- indlebe 11y ago
  There is solid science behind what is moral in the world. It's a good idea for countries to work together to maintain a moral standard internationally.
  - comrade1 11y ago
    No, there is not. That is a ridiculous statement. As a American I prefer the rights of an individual, but most the world favors the right of the community. The areas that Isis controls and taken over gladly go to Isis because they are Sunni. If we went by your belief we would support Isis.
    - darkmighty 11y ago
      This is not a ridiculous statement. You should inform on the theory -- there are many basis for morality modeled by theories as diverse game theory, social dynamics, utility theory and evolutionary dynamics. Of course, I wouldn't dare say a single definition is unequivocally better or something, but there are models. I think a large part of the world lacks even baseline education and stability that would be required to make a principled choice on morality. And then (specially in that region) there are complicated matters such as religious fanaticism and ethical rivalry -- things which hopelessly lack even self-consistency in the scientific sense.
      - comrade1 11y ago
        So you support Isis and their takeover of Sunni areas that welcome them with open arms? I guess that's ok but I don't agree with you.
comrade1 11y ago
The Iraqi Shiites and Kurdish Christian/shiites should be fighting Isis. Saddam (a Sunni himself) kept the Sunni radicals in check for decades. If the people of the region won't do it or even try why should you? It's like the u.s. never learns and keeps getting taken advantage of by people that don't even align with their beliefs.

seivan 11y ago

My father have friends working in the IDP camps. There are plenty of Kurdish doctors from Sweden going there, doing abortions on 9 year olds. Some don't survive. The thing ISIS did to the Yezidis.. the children, the female ones. It would kill your insides and want to set the world on fire. In fact, it wasn't just ISIS, but their Sunni muslim neighbours. As soon as they heard ISIS were nearby, they started killing their Yezidi neighbours, raping their daughters on the streets. There were mattresses and used condoms lying on the streets when the HPG (Yezidi militia) came back to Sinjar... grim scenes. It wasn't 3 or 4, but systematic abuse on thousands. Christians (Assyrians) weren't spared either, but not as many as 7000 Yezidis females captive since last summer. The male children are being used as human shields and sucide bombers. The female (down to the age of 6) are being sold on sex-slave markets. Edit: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2015/05/22/islamic-state-burned-a-woman-alive-for-not-engaging-in-an-extreme-sex-act-u-n-official-says/ http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2015/05/22... "They commit rape, sexual slavery, forced prostitution and other acts of extreme brutality. We heard one case of a 20-year-old girl who was burned alive because she refused to perform an extreme sex act. We learned of many other sadistic sexual acts. We struggled to understand the mentality of people who commit such crimes." Set the world on fire.

ISL 11y ago
Don't set the world on fire. Be a bastion for good in the world.
- waps 11y ago
  This story is remniscent of the 1948 Israel war of independance which was also full of stories about neighbours suddenly being given the change to rape, steal and pillage. One can only hope it ends in exactly the same way : 5 more Israels in the middle east. A Yezidi one. An Assyrian one. A Shi'a one. You can say whatever you want to say but this islam is an ideology which is centrally focused on it's supposed superiority and the focus is the reason for this superiority : that allah will guarantee military victory. Walk near any large station in a large Western European city and you can find out for yourself (if you look the least bit dark you will find out even if you don't want to, they'll walk up to you and ask). Paris - Gare du Nord, Brussels North, Amsterdam, ... you should go to Syria and fight and kill. Feign minimal intrest and you get to find out more. Why - because allah will make you win and we'll finally punish the infidels, and everybody you hate. They'll provide a wife, and openly talk about their "attitude" to captured women - what allah "allows". The main counterargument you hear on that street - it's not a way to victory, it's a way to death. I don't know about if this is similar in America. Does anyone have similar experiences in, say, New York ? Given where the recruitment happens in Western Europe and how successful it is in these western states, I find it extremely difficult to believe that this ISIS will remain confined to the middle east. I am terrified what will happen in Western Europe in the large cities if ISIS appears to become more successful. This ideology needs to die, if we are to have peace.
  - selimthegrim 11y ago
    Why are European Muslims (admittedly the sad, hopeless losers) falling into this trap? Could it be a lack of civic, constitutional nationalism and Habermassian public civil religion as opposed to bog-standard ethnocracies?
    - azth 11y ago
      It goes without saying that what ISIS is doing is against the teachings of Islam. What's happening is that they are making propaganda to the uneducated people who "have nothing to lose". They tell them to go carry weapons, fight for glory, and they'll be rewarded with Heaven. Pretty good deal to get out of their circumstances, right? The fact remains though that what they preach is not of Islam.
comrade1 11y ago
Why did they use condoms?
- actcutemonster 11y ago
  Some of the Islamists had western education, they were from the UK or Denmark. There are reports of them asking their friends and supporters to send condoms. Many of them have diseases and share victims. Majority didn't use condoms given the reports from the refugee camps.
  - comrade1 11y ago
    Sounds like more of the same. Exaggeration and propaganda from both sides to raise emotion and get people that have nothing to do with the fight to commit to kill. The people of the region don't even want to fight this battle.
thomasz 11y ago
FYI, HPG is the armed wing of the PKK, not a Yezidi militia.
- seivan 11y ago
  My bad, YBS. Getting hard to keep track of acronyms.

toomuchtodo 11y ago

What would be most helpful in defeating ISIS? Equipment? More manpower? Logistical support?

seivan 11y ago
Equipment. So far most of the US gear goes to ISIS. You'd think I'd be over-exaggerating, but just last weekend US equipment (eg Humvees) that went to the Shia militia also known as Iraq "army" (ISF) was left while back while they abandoned Ramadi so ISIS could get in. Not the first time the Iraqi "army" does that. The Peshmerga desperately need Anti-Tank/IED gear. So far they are relying on MILANs from Germany. They have enough trained soldiers and experienced soldiers from old wars to tackle ISIS, but they are working with some really old weapons. I've seen snipers using old ww2 rifles. No joke. From what I understand there is a bill at congress (pushed by the Republicans) to arm the Peshmerga (Kurdistan) directly instead of relying on Baghdad (HAH!) to give the the kurds their 10% share. Not sure if it has passed yet. Essentially the Iraqi "Army" has failed, the only thing that is stable in Iraq is the "Gold Division", essentially their Special Forces. They are pretty effective at holding ISIS at bay, but have endured heavy casualties because of the Militia/Army incompetence. The Shia militia can't hold their grounds... except when it comes to abusing Sunni civilians. Iraq doesn't exist anymore. It's now Iran... the US is arming Iran 😂. Let that sink in.
- ajmurmann 11y ago
  That sounds to me like Equipment is not what's needed, since there is hardly anyone reliable we can give the equipment to. How about deploying a few millions soldiers? A few million sounds like a unreasonably large number, but on the other hand there were 4 million soldiers in Stalingrad alone and we should be able to treat this situation as urgently as things were handled in WWII. To me ISIS is right up there with the Nazis. So let's go all out and get this done with!
  - rdl 11y ago
    The Kurds, at least in Iraq, have consistently been friends of the US, and at least compared to the other states in the region, a basically progressive and moderate government. (There are issues with Turkey and Iran w.r.t. Kurds in those countries as well as with the idea of Kurdistan, since it would potentially redraw their own borders.) Aside from some very specialized troops (combat controllers and maybe some other SOF; high level logistics people to interface with the rest of the supply chain; some trainers and advisors) you could probably equip the Kurdish forces with modern weapons to good effect. The biggest issue is bypassing the Iraqi central government basically admits that Iraq is/was/will always be a failure, and guarantees it. This might cause both Iran and KSA to intervene in the territory. This could lead to escalation; I'd personally be willing to accept the status quo in Syria if the alternative is a regional war.

rdl 11y ago

I'd be concerned about ITAR and other issues (less so as an individual fighter, but that isn't really what the Kurds need -- what they need are the kind of resources companies or organizations could provide.) All it would take to clear this up would be a letter of marque.

toomuchtodo 11y ago
I admit I had to lookup "letter of marque" on wikipedia, but find it to be an interesting idea.
angersock 11y ago
Ah, Blackwater rides again!
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]

jmspring 11y ago

It is horrible. That said, we saw the same concern and destruction of historical artifacts with the Taliban in Afghanistan.

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

comrade1 11y ago

The Iraqi Shiites and Kurdish Christian/shiites should be fighting Isis. Saddam (a Sunni himself) kept the Sunni radicals in check for decades. If the people of the region won't do it or even try why should you? It's like the u.s. never learns and keeps getting taken advantage of by people that don't even align with their beliefs.

indlebe 11y ago
There is solid science behind what is moral in the world. It's a good idea for countries to work together to maintain a moral standard internationally.
- comrade1 11y ago
  No, there is not. That is a ridiculous statement. As a American I prefer the rights of an individual, but most the world favors the right of the community. The areas that Isis controls and taken over gladly go to Isis because they are Sunni. If we went by your belief we would support Isis.
  - darkmighty 11y ago
    This is not a ridiculous statement. You should inform on the theory -- there are many basis for morality modeled by theories as diverse game theory, social dynamics, utility theory and evolutionary dynamics. Of course, I wouldn't dare say a single definition is unequivocally better or something, but there are models. I think a large part of the world lacks even baseline education and stability that would be required to make a principled choice on morality. And then (specially in that region) there are complicated matters such as religious fanaticism and ethical rivalry -- things which hopelessly lack even self-consistency in the scientific sense.
    - comrade1 11y ago
      So you support Isis and their takeover of Sunni areas that welcome them with open arms? I guess that's ok but I don't agree with you.

comrade1 11y ago