4 ms·

Historical ruins is our shared heritage and our countries should take blame for everything that lead to this situation, should they take harm. And I mean [almos

Historical ruins is our shared heritage and our countries should take blame for everything that lead to this situation, should they take harm. And I mean [almost] every country. By playing petty and pointless political games we're about to lose things we have no hopes to ever have back. Will people learn? These days I think the only way for humanity to save face is to die off entirely.

jqm 11y ago
First paragraph is gold. Every country responsible involved in the proxy wars and game playing that has resulted in threats to these ruins is behaving in a criminally careless fashion and should be brought to account for their misdeed. The second paragraph is also gold until the last sentence which is absolute shit. Humanity dying off is much much worse than ancient ruins being destroyed. Ancient ruins don't mean anything if there aren't any people around to experience them.
- selimthegrim 11y ago
  I invite you to tell that to the people who gave their lives trying to save archives, artifacts and records when the National Library in Sarajevo was shelled in 1992. I guess some people think these things are worth dying for.
chongli 11y ago
When a person dies we also lose something we'll never get back. And the person who dies? They lose the entire universe and all of its future possibilities.
nosuchthing 11y ago
Blame games don't solve problems. Misanthropy and careless childish avocation of destruction rather than constructive aims is the macro issue here. Maybe we can learn from history and rather than brutishly lash out in anger or fear we could attempt to build new bridges least we forget why the old bridges failed.
- deciplex 11y ago
  Understanding the history of the rise of ISIS might help us avoid similar situations in the future, and it might help us to reconcile with them if such a thing is even possible, but mere knowledge alone will not defeat ISIS. It may be that their movement is unsustainable and will wither away on its own, or it may be that local forces will eventually be able to defeat them, but if not then either we will take action against ISIS at some point, or we will have to coexist with them. Considering that this is a group whose express goal is the assimilation or destruction of all human cultures not their own, peaceful coexistence seems unlikely. (To be clear, I don't consider ISIS a global threat obviously, but they are certainly having a great deal of success locally at the moment.) The West is so morally compromised here that it's hard to imagine that we could credibly (in the eyes of non-ISIS players in the region) take action against them, but that does not mean that destroying ISIS is not the right thing to do in theory. It just means that we probably can't do it. That's not a defense of ISIS though, it's an indictment of many decades of utterly stupid and short-sighted policy in the Middle East.
  - nosuchthing 11y ago
    Well yeah, Daesh are shit lords and should be neutralized. The set of dominoes and destabilization of that entire region really probably could have been prevented. When economies collapse and people are hungry and desperate that doesn't really help encourage stability or sanity.
dba7dba 11y ago
Sorry but I disagree it's fault of everyone else. True Bush invasion started this. But as far as the collapse of security forces in Iraq (which allowed ISIS to gain infamy), most of the blame lies with the Iraqi govt. You can't stop a few hundred (or a thousand) guys with AK47 with pickups when your solders have M1 tanks?
- jqm 11y ago
  Political game playing by anti-Assad and anti-Iranian powers were also directly responsible for the rise of ISIS. These share a portion of the blame for some ISIS's misdeeds.
  - Steko 11y ago
    As long as we're assigning blame let's actually blame the people directly encouraging this, the wahhabist/salafi crusaders that are heavily funded and protected by the Saudi government and who have been at it long before Isis. http://www.cfr.org/world/cultural-terrorism-wahhabi-islam/p5234 http://www.cfr.org/world/cultural-terrorism-wahhabi-islam/p5...
    - seivan 11y ago
      People keep forgetting that the Muslims all around the world are traveling there to rape children and murder civilian "apostates". This isn't some "tiny" minority, they are over 100 of millions of supporters and people who approve of the doctrine that allows sex-slavery and killing apostates. In fact, according to Pew Research as of 2013, the numbers reach up to approx. 800 000 000 muslims who think that honour killings are justified amongst other things. As an ex-muslim (much like an ex-smoker) I am rather biased, but here it is http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-overview/ http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religi...
      - selimthegrim 11y ago
        So your contention is that all these people's families are perfectly fine with them going to the Levant for a little sun and frolic? If they have such a support base for all these terrible things then why do they have to hide where they are going? I'm no friend to organized religion, but I remember enough about the so-called rules of jihad to remember that you need your father's permission. When you start going on about "the Muslims" you're the mirror image of all these assholes like Qaradawi that go on about "one Ummah" and the "rope of Allah"
simi_ 11y ago
> These days I think the only way for humanity to save face is to die off entirely. I have a slightly different theory - assholes will be assholes. http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/13/science/no-time-for-bullies-baboons-retool-their-culture.html http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/13/science/no-time-for-bullie... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Q-bB-qywJ0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Q-bB-qywJ0

jqm 11y ago

First paragraph is gold. Every country responsible involved in the proxy wars and game playing that has resulted in threats to these ruins is behaving in a criminally careless fashion and should be brought to account for their misdeed. The second paragraph is also gold until the last sentence which is absolute shit. Humanity dying off is much much worse than ancient ruins being destroyed. Ancient ruins don't mean anything if there aren't any people around to experience them.

selimthegrim 11y ago
I invite you to tell that to the people who gave their lives trying to save archives, artifacts and records when the National Library in Sarajevo was shelled in 1992. I guess some people think these things are worth dying for.

chongli 11y ago

When a person dies we also lose something we'll never get back. And the person who dies? They lose the entire universe and all of its future possibilities.

nosuchthing 11y ago

Blame games don't solve problems. Misanthropy and careless childish avocation of destruction rather than constructive aims is the macro issue here. Maybe we can learn from history and rather than brutishly lash out in anger or fear we could attempt to build new bridges least we forget why the old bridges failed.

deciplex 11y ago
Understanding the history of the rise of ISIS might help us avoid similar situations in the future, and it might help us to reconcile with them if such a thing is even possible, but mere knowledge alone will not defeat ISIS. It may be that their movement is unsustainable and will wither away on its own, or it may be that local forces will eventually be able to defeat them, but if not then either we will take action against ISIS at some point, or we will have to coexist with them. Considering that this is a group whose express goal is the assimilation or destruction of all human cultures not their own, peaceful coexistence seems unlikely. (To be clear, I don't consider ISIS a global threat obviously, but they are certainly having a great deal of success locally at the moment.) The West is so morally compromised here that it's hard to imagine that we could credibly (in the eyes of non-ISIS players in the region) take action against them, but that does not mean that destroying ISIS is not the right thing to do in theory. It just means that we probably can't do it. That's not a defense of ISIS though, it's an indictment of many decades of utterly stupid and short-sighted policy in the Middle East.
- nosuchthing 11y ago
  Well yeah, Daesh are shit lords and should be neutralized. The set of dominoes and destabilization of that entire region really probably could have been prevented. When economies collapse and people are hungry and desperate that doesn't really help encourage stability or sanity.

dba7dba 11y ago

Sorry but I disagree it's fault of everyone else. True Bush invasion started this. But as far as the collapse of security forces in Iraq (which allowed ISIS to gain infamy), most of the blame lies with the Iraqi govt. You can't stop a few hundred (or a thousand) guys with AK47 with pickups when your solders have M1 tanks?

jqm 11y ago
Political game playing by anti-Assad and anti-Iranian powers were also directly responsible for the rise of ISIS. These share a portion of the blame for some ISIS's misdeeds.
- Steko 11y ago
  As long as we're assigning blame let's actually blame the people directly encouraging this, the wahhabist/salafi crusaders that are heavily funded and protected by the Saudi government and who have been at it long before Isis. http://www.cfr.org/world/cultural-terrorism-wahhabi-islam/p5234 http://www.cfr.org/world/cultural-terrorism-wahhabi-islam/p5...
  - seivan 11y ago
    People keep forgetting that the Muslims all around the world are traveling there to rape children and murder civilian "apostates". This isn't some "tiny" minority, they are over 100 of millions of supporters and people who approve of the doctrine that allows sex-slavery and killing apostates. In fact, according to Pew Research as of 2013, the numbers reach up to approx. 800 000 000 muslims who think that honour killings are justified amongst other things. As an ex-muslim (much like an ex-smoker) I am rather biased, but here it is http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-overview/ http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religi...
    - selimthegrim 11y ago
      So your contention is that all these people's families are perfectly fine with them going to the Levant for a little sun and frolic? If they have such a support base for all these terrible things then why do they have to hide where they are going? I'm no friend to organized religion, but I remember enough about the so-called rules of jihad to remember that you need your father's permission. When you start going on about "the Muslims" you're the mirror image of all these assholes like Qaradawi that go on about "one Ummah" and the "rope of Allah"

simi_ 11y ago

> These days I think the only way for humanity to save face is to die off entirely. I have a slightly different theory - assholes will be assholes. http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/13/science/no-time-for-bullies-baboons-retool-their-culture.html http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/13/science/no-time-for-bullie... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Q-bB-qywJ0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Q-bB-qywJ0