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I work in finance, and browsing this list reinforces the assumption that people on H-1Bs are just cheap labor for employers. Most people on this list whose pos
by tdees40 11y ago
I work in finance, and browsing this list reinforces the assumption that people on H-1Bs are just cheap labor for employers. Most people on this list whose positions I can determine with confidence seem to make 10-20% too little.
- g4m8i7 11y agoCheck Netflix. Most of their H1Bs are making far greater than prevailing wage for their positions.
- rand334 11y agoYeah, is this data right? Why do they have Software and UX people making over $250k?
- ojbyrne 11y agoIt's fairly common knowledge in Silicon Valley that Netflix salaries are insane.
- chrisper 11y agoIsn't that because they hire a very small amount of very experienced people?
- zerr 11y agoOr maybe because of their high turnover, to compensate the risk of what is known as "the culture of fear" there.
- beamatronic 11y agoFor $300k+ I'll take on some risk.
- zerr 11y agoIf you're a US person, why not... But for someone who needs H1B sponsoring and relocation (probably with a family as well), Netflix is the worst company to work for as your first American employer.
- brendangregg 11y agoWhy, specifically? ... I came to Netflix on a H-1B, and they have been awesome. But if there are specific concerns (eg, no grace period in case of termination? something else?) I'd be interested to know what they were.
- zerr 11y agoBecause initially H1B's are tied to your employer. I think for the first 2 years? So if you're let go during that period, I believe you have to move back to your country. You can't directly transfer H1B to another company [during that period].
- brendangregg 11y agoDisclaimer: I'm not an immigration lawyer... So while employers sponsor H-1Bs, and the employer name is associated with the H-1B, you shouldn't be "tied" to the employer, certainly not these days post AC21 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Competitiveness_in_the_21st_Century_Act http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Competitiveness_in_the...). I've been headhunted while on a first term H-1B, and recruiters didn't blink when I mentioned I was on a H-1B. Transfers are common. (Has an employer given you the impression you were tied to them?) But you mentioned being "let go" during that period, and needing to move back to your country. (A problem created by the H-1B's lack of a stipulated grace period.) Is Netflix considered a poor choice as it's seen to be quicker to fire, therefore this situation is more likely?
- zerr 11y agoPersonally, I was considering Netflix as a poor choice as the first H1B sponsor because I thought you (your H1B) are tied to your employer for some initial time. If that is not the case, I could reconsider Netflix :) Assuming that they give enough termination notification (and also helping with landing new jobs, as they mention in those famous slides). My former boss works at Netflix for a couple of years now and mentioned about good opportunities there, but Netflix was out of the table for me because of this possible initial H1B moment and generally because of that "the culture of fear". Btw, how do you feel about this? Does this fear really exist? Is it possible for a good engineer to have a relaxed life and atmosphere and a family friendly situation at Netflix?
- qq66 11y agoIt's also because they explicitly prefer to shift as much compensation as possible towards salary as opposed to stock, benefits, perks, etc. They released a long presentation about why they do this, I think it's somewhere on Slideshare.
- umeshunni 11y agoSlide #100 onwards: http://www.slideshare.net/reed2001/culture-1798664 http://www.slideshare.net/reed2001/culture-1798664
- drewg123 11y agoSee my reply below. TLDR version: Netflix compensation is all salary. Google, etc, comp is salary + stock + bonus, and I suspect these applications list just salary, not total comp.
- myth_buster 11y agoIsn't it the case that compensation at Netflix is variable and you could select how you want to distribute it over salary/stock/bonus?
- drewg123 11y agoYes, that's true (for at least stock, I don't think they do bonuses). But the default is 95% salary / 5% stock, so to simplify, I said "just salary"
- formulaT 11y agoNetflix engineers are better than the average engineer (even in a given job title), so the prevailing wage calculations don't represent the true economics. But in any case, H1-B visas can lower the wages of engineers without H1-B holders earning less than Americans. It's just like any import. The import itself doesn't have to be sold for cheaper, it's just that the presence of the import lowers the price via competition, so that both the import and the local good are cheaper than the price before importing started.
- sgrove 11y agoDoesn't seem to be the case for engineering positions, from checking out a few employers in the bay area.
- robbyking 11y agoI'm a software engineer, and I searched my company and found that the average salary listed was inline with what I know to be our baseline staff salary for developers. (For what it's worth, we annually review industry salary surveys and adjust compensation for our existing employees accordingly.) A lot of engineers (especially in the Bay Area) either want the excitement and IPO potential of a start up or the stability of working for a large, established company. It makes recruiting difficult for mid-sized companies like mine.
- emu 11y agoThis data doesn't include non-salary compensation (e.g., stock grants). For tech companies, that can be substantial.
- product50 11y agoLooks as if you are looking at some different data set than we all are. Check out Netflix, Google, Twitter etc. - these are more than competitive rates. Unless you went into bodyshop companies like TCS, Infosys etc. to make yourself feel angry.
- sjg007 11y agoInfosys seems to classify everyone as a technology lead. They don't have any software engineers!
- bayesianhorse 11y agoGiven the high salaries of tech employees and the low unemployment among them, I think that "cheap labor" isn't exactly what I would call the H-1B system. It is a bit exploitative of the immigrants, by which I meant that the companies use the strict/stupid US immigration system as leverage. But citizens or taxpayers in the US have no reason of complaining. Maybe these H-1Bs are preventing an entirely cut-throat competition for talent, but on overall, those people add to the economy, and in a big way. Anyone who earns like 100K a year creates numerous other jobs and pays a lot of taxes...
- formulaT 11y agoAll imports are "cheap" whether labor, steel or iphones. Cheap is good, because if you can get something cheap it means you can get it with minimal resources. The only reason to limit immigration is externalities. For example, Israel has very open immigration for Jews. It does not allow open immigration for African refugees because they believe it would have a negative impact on their society. For some strange reason, other nations are fearful of stating the same thing, but they clearly have something like this in mind when they limit immigration. Cheap labor is a net positive. The only valid reason to oppose immigration (and I think it is very valid) is the negative social externalities that immigration causes.