3 ms·

What makes you think productivity necessarily needs to be increased? The United States has the most productive workers in the world. There's plenty of wealth he

What makes you think productivity necessarily needs to be increased? The United States has the most productive workers in the world. There's plenty of wealth here to go around, and this "experiment" is happening because a lot of us believe that it isn't going around fairly. And stop acting like wealth redistribution is "robbing", unless you're willing to admit that when the rules changed from Keynesian guidelines in the 1950s to supply-side guidelines in the 1980s as "robbing" from the middle class and the poor.

pdonis 11y ago
> What makes you think productivity necessarily needs to be increased? I wasn't saying it "needs" to be increased. I was saying that, if it doesn't increase, the value of whatever the workers are doing doesn't increase. So any increase in their wages means an increase in what they are being paid, relative to the value of what they are producing. Someone else has to make up that difference by accepting a decrease in the the value of what they are getting, relative to what they are paying for it--either they pay more for the same product, or they pay the same as before but get a product of less value. > stop acting like wealth redistribution is "robbing" Wealth redistribution in itself is not "robbing". I redistribute wealth every time I buy something. What is "robbing" is wealth redistribution disguised as something else, so the people whose wealth is being taken don't know it and don't make a voluntary choice to give it up.
- zevyoura 11y ago
  > What is "robbing" is wealth redistribution disguised as something else, so the people whose wealth is being taken don't know it and don't make a voluntary choice to give it up. Do you object to taxes in general?
  - pdonis 11y ago
    > Do you object to taxes in general? Strictly speaking, I voluntarily choose to be taxed, because I vote for representatives that make laws that impose those taxes. So I can't say I object to taxes as robbery (though there are extreme libertarians who do view taxation that way).
    - zevyoura 11y ago
      How is that different than if those representatives chose to enact tax laws that cause wealth distribution (as they currently do)?
      - pdonis 11y ago
        Again, if elected representatives pass laws that take tax money and give it to people for various reasons--welfare programs--that's not robbery, strictly speaking, because people voluntarily elect the representatives knowing that they are going to redistribute wealth in this way. What's different about a minimum wage is that the wealth redistribution is covert, not overt. The government claims that the minimum wage won't take anything away from anybody. But it does.

pdonis 11y ago

> What makes you think productivity necessarily needs to be increased? I wasn't saying it "needs" to be increased. I was saying that, if it doesn't increase, the value of whatever the workers are doing doesn't increase. So any increase in their wages means an increase in what they are being paid, relative to the value of what they are producing. Someone else has to make up that difference by accepting a decrease in the the value of what they are getting, relative to what they are paying for it--either they pay more for the same product, or they pay the same as before but get a product of less value. > stop acting like wealth redistribution is "robbing" Wealth redistribution in itself is not "robbing". I redistribute wealth every time I buy something. What is "robbing" is wealth redistribution disguised as something else, so the people whose wealth is being taken don't know it and don't make a voluntary choice to give it up.

zevyoura 11y ago
> What is "robbing" is wealth redistribution disguised as something else, so the people whose wealth is being taken don't know it and don't make a voluntary choice to give it up. Do you object to taxes in general?
- pdonis 11y ago
  > Do you object to taxes in general? Strictly speaking, I voluntarily choose to be taxed, because I vote for representatives that make laws that impose those taxes. So I can't say I object to taxes as robbery (though there are extreme libertarians who do view taxation that way).
  - zevyoura 11y ago
    How is that different than if those representatives chose to enact tax laws that cause wealth distribution (as they currently do)?
    - pdonis 11y ago
      Again, if elected representatives pass laws that take tax money and give it to people for various reasons--welfare programs--that's not robbery, strictly speaking, because people voluntarily elect the representatives knowing that they are going to redistribute wealth in this way. What's different about a minimum wage is that the wealth redistribution is covert, not overt. The government claims that the minimum wage won't take anything away from anybody. But it does.