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Anybody consider the plight of the skilled laborer who invested time and potentially money into being more marketable and is making $15, who is now brought down

Anybody consider the plight of the skilled laborer who invested time and potentially money into being more marketable and is making $15, who is now brought down to the level of people working menial unskilled jobs? Is this fair? You can almost certainly be sure nobody will be given raises to maintain wage parity.

ForHackernews 11y ago
That's a classic example of crab mentality: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crab_mentality https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crab_mentality Additionally, there is some evidence that minimum wage increases also have a "ripple effect" that increases wages for workers earning more than the minimum: http://www.brookings.edu/blogs/up-front/posts/2014/01/10-ripple-effect-of-increasing-the-minimum-wage-kearney-harris http://www.brookings.edu/blogs/up-front/posts/2014/01/10-rip...
Eric_WVGG 11y ago
- How do you call a skilled laborer being fairly compensated for his work having a "plight"? - Also that laborer isn't being "brought down"; others are being "lifted up." Others don't have to lose for you to win. And anyway, if the proponents of a higher minimum wage are correct, then this will result in a boom in the gross domestic product of LA as people who previously couldn't afford homes, appliances, or better food will be spending money on those things, increasing the income of LA businesses, which in fact would lead to rising wages for those skilled laborers you're so worried about… this is textbook Keynesian economics.
- pdonis 11y ago
  > this will result in a boom in the gross domestic product of LA At the expense of what? If you raise wages but don't increase productivity, you're just robbing one sector of society to pay another. And nobody has mentioned any change accompanying this that would increase productivity.
  - Eric_WVGG 11y ago
    What makes you think productivity necessarily needs to be increased? The United States has the most productive workers in the world. There's plenty of wealth here to go around, and this "experiment" is happening because a lot of us believe that it isn't going around fairly. And stop acting like wealth redistribution is "robbing", unless you're willing to admit that when the rules changed from Keynesian guidelines in the 1950s to supply-side guidelines in the 1980s as "robbing" from the middle class and the poor.
    - pdonis 11y ago
      > What makes you think productivity necessarily needs to be increased? I wasn't saying it "needs" to be increased. I was saying that, if it doesn't increase, the value of whatever the workers are doing doesn't increase. So any increase in their wages means an increase in what they are being paid, relative to the value of what they are producing. Someone else has to make up that difference by accepting a decrease in the the value of what they are getting, relative to what they are paying for it--either they pay more for the same product, or they pay the same as before but get a product of less value. > stop acting like wealth redistribution is "robbing" Wealth redistribution in itself is not "robbing". I redistribute wealth every time I buy something. What is "robbing" is wealth redistribution disguised as something else, so the people whose wealth is being taken don't know it and don't make a voluntary choice to give it up.
      - zevyoura 11y ago
        > What is "robbing" is wealth redistribution disguised as something else, so the people whose wealth is being taken don't know it and don't make a voluntary choice to give it up. Do you object to taxes in general?
        pdonis 11y ago
        > Do you object to taxes in general? Strictly speaking, I voluntarily choose to be taxed, because I vote for representatives that make laws that impose those taxes. So I can't say I object to taxes as robbery (though there are extreme libertarians who do view taxation that way).
- Igglyboo 11y ago
  Goods will become more expensive if the minimum wage goes up to $15, so yes that laborer is being "brought down".
  - zevyoura 11y ago
    There will also be increased demand for the goods the skilled person is producing since more people can now afford them, so there is a counterbalance to that too.
crdoconnor 11y ago
>You can almost certainly be sure nobody will be given raises to maintain wage parity. Except they are. It's called the ripple effect.
angersock 11y ago
If you're making $15/hr, you're not "skilled". "skilled" is a function of rarity, as is price. So, if you aren't priced like a rare good, I'm willing to bet you aren't "skilled". EDIT: Minor spelling fixes. Also, the whole position is odious--help those in need, amigo. EDIT2: Minor language cleanup to assuage hivemind.
cabalamat 11y ago
> who is now brought down to the level of people working menial unskilled jobs? They will still be getting $15/hr, so they haven't been "brought down" to any level; others have been raised up.
- mason240 11y ago
  They will be brought down when their purchasing power decreases after the cost of living increases.
quotedmycode 11y ago
1. They aren't being brought down. 2. People who feel 'stuck' in their job because it pays better than minimum wage can switch jobs a lot easier now. Because of that, you'd probably see wages rise, since it takes time for those skills to develop after people leave.
bdcravens 11y ago
Shouldn't a higher minimum wage drive additional spending, which depending on the skilled laborer's market, potentially increase their wage. Hopefully the minimum wage will be enough of a boost that their children can then become a skilled laborer. Even so, so what? I'm making more than some people with more education, and there are morons who were in the right place at the right time who spend more in a year than I'll ever be worth.
bashinator 11y ago
If you no longer need as much training or education to make $15/hour, then wouldn't the supply of workers decrease for skilled jobs that don't increase their pay?

ForHackernews 11y ago

That's a classic example of crab mentality: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crab_mentality https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crab_mentality Additionally, there is some evidence that minimum wage increases also have a "ripple effect" that increases wages for workers earning more than the minimum: http://www.brookings.edu/blogs/up-front/posts/2014/01/10-ripple-effect-of-increasing-the-minimum-wage-kearney-harris http://www.brookings.edu/blogs/up-front/posts/2014/01/10-rip...

Eric_WVGG 11y ago

- How do you call a skilled laborer being fairly compensated for his work having a "plight"? - Also that laborer isn't being "brought down"; others are being "lifted up." Others don't have to lose for you to win. And anyway, if the proponents of a higher minimum wage are correct, then this will result in a boom in the gross domestic product of LA as people who previously couldn't afford homes, appliances, or better food will be spending money on those things, increasing the income of LA businesses, which in fact would lead to rising wages for those skilled laborers you're so worried about… this is textbook Keynesian economics.

pdonis 11y ago
> this will result in a boom in the gross domestic product of LA At the expense of what? If you raise wages but don't increase productivity, you're just robbing one sector of society to pay another. And nobody has mentioned any change accompanying this that would increase productivity.
- Eric_WVGG 11y ago
  What makes you think productivity necessarily needs to be increased? The United States has the most productive workers in the world. There's plenty of wealth here to go around, and this "experiment" is happening because a lot of us believe that it isn't going around fairly. And stop acting like wealth redistribution is "robbing", unless you're willing to admit that when the rules changed from Keynesian guidelines in the 1950s to supply-side guidelines in the 1980s as "robbing" from the middle class and the poor.
  - pdonis 11y ago
    > What makes you think productivity necessarily needs to be increased? I wasn't saying it "needs" to be increased. I was saying that, if it doesn't increase, the value of whatever the workers are doing doesn't increase. So any increase in their wages means an increase in what they are being paid, relative to the value of what they are producing. Someone else has to make up that difference by accepting a decrease in the the value of what they are getting, relative to what they are paying for it--either they pay more for the same product, or they pay the same as before but get a product of less value. > stop acting like wealth redistribution is "robbing" Wealth redistribution in itself is not "robbing". I redistribute wealth every time I buy something. What is "robbing" is wealth redistribution disguised as something else, so the people whose wealth is being taken don't know it and don't make a voluntary choice to give it up.
    - zevyoura 11y ago
      > What is "robbing" is wealth redistribution disguised as something else, so the people whose wealth is being taken don't know it and don't make a voluntary choice to give it up. Do you object to taxes in general?
      - pdonis 11y ago
        > Do you object to taxes in general? Strictly speaking, I voluntarily choose to be taxed, because I vote for representatives that make laws that impose those taxes. So I can't say I object to taxes as robbery (though there are extreme libertarians who do view taxation that way).
Igglyboo 11y ago
Goods will become more expensive if the minimum wage goes up to $15, so yes that laborer is being "brought down".
- zevyoura 11y ago
  There will also be increased demand for the goods the skilled person is producing since more people can now afford them, so there is a counterbalance to that too.

crdoconnor 11y ago

>You can almost certainly be sure nobody will be given raises to maintain wage parity. Except they are. It's called the ripple effect.

angersock 11y ago

If you're making $15/hr, you're not "skilled". "skilled" is a function of rarity, as is price. So, if you aren't priced like a rare good, I'm willing to bet you aren't "skilled". EDIT: Minor spelling fixes. Also, the whole position is odious--help those in need, amigo. EDIT2: Minor language cleanup to assuage hivemind.

cabalamat 11y ago

> who is now brought down to the level of people working menial unskilled jobs? They will still be getting $15/hr, so they haven't been "brought down" to any level; others have been raised up.

mason240 11y ago
They will be brought down when their purchasing power decreases after the cost of living increases.

quotedmycode 11y ago

1. They aren't being brought down. 2. People who feel 'stuck' in their job because it pays better than minimum wage can switch jobs a lot easier now. Because of that, you'd probably see wages rise, since it takes time for those skills to develop after people leave.

bdcravens 11y ago

Shouldn't a higher minimum wage drive additional spending, which depending on the skilled laborer's market, potentially increase their wage. Hopefully the minimum wage will be enough of a boost that their children can then become a skilled laborer. Even so, so what? I'm making more than some people with more education, and there are morons who were in the right place at the right time who spend more in a year than I'll ever be worth.

bashinator 11y ago

If you no longer need as much training or education to make $15/hour, then wouldn't the supply of workers decrease for skilled jobs that don't increase their pay?