4 ms·

I've never quite bought into this "predatory lending" idea. There is exactly one way for me to take a loan, and that is to actively sign papers saying, "Yes, gi

I've never quite bought into this "predatory lending" idea. There is exactly one way for me to take a loan, and that is to actively sign papers saying, "Yes, give me money under these terms!" Terms that seem too good to be true, are. Borrowers know this. Nation-state borrowers certainly know this. So sure, easy money was available. No one forced anyone to take it. There were political considerations involved, obviously: parties that were willing to mortgage the future of their nation were more likely to get elected than parties that were willing to be fiscally responsible (to the extent that it would be astonishing if there even were parties willing to be fiscally responsible.) So leaders offered terms, but that meant nothing without borrowers being willing to take them. I don't see how, despite politics, that the lenders bear any blame for that because national governments are presumed to be mature stewards of the state, able to say "No" to enticing but ill-advised offers. To argue otherwise is to suggest that the Greeks et al are simply not ready or able to govern themselves, which I have difficulty accepting.

harrumph 11y ago
>To argue otherwise is to suggest that the Greeks et al are simply not ready or able to govern themselves, which I have difficulty accepting. And what happens when a new government is elected that is made up mainly of people who actively protested the loans and the terms the ECB made in the first place and for their trouble were gassed, beaten and jailed? People who turn off their brains and their capacity for moral/ethical calculation for no better reason that "someone signed a contract" are reductionist, simplistic and are capable of assent to monumental crimes.
coldtea 11y ago
>I don't see how, despite politics, that the lenders bear any blame for that because national governments are presumed to be mature stewards of the state, able to say "No" to enticing but ill-advised offers. Ever heards of "lackeys" in power? Countries ruled by people whose careers are sponsored by foreign powers? It's quite common in Latin America, Africa, Asia and Southern Europe, namely in all places not big enough to be colonialists themselves. Greece has been a protectorate and semi-colony (with some parts, like the Dodecanese, Ionian Islands and Cyprus being actual colonies to Italians, British, etc) ever since the country was established. From foreign powers sending a German king to rule the place in early 19th century, down to helping establish a military dictatorship back in the late sixties.

harrumph 11y ago

>To argue otherwise is to suggest that the Greeks et al are simply not ready or able to govern themselves, which I have difficulty accepting. And what happens when a new government is elected that is made up mainly of people who actively protested the loans and the terms the ECB made in the first place and for their trouble were gassed, beaten and jailed? People who turn off their brains and their capacity for moral/ethical calculation for no better reason that "someone signed a contract" are reductionist, simplistic and are capable of assent to monumental crimes.

coldtea 11y ago

>I don't see how, despite politics, that the lenders bear any blame for that because national governments are presumed to be mature stewards of the state, able to say "No" to enticing but ill-advised offers. Ever heards of "lackeys" in power? Countries ruled by people whose careers are sponsored by foreign powers? It's quite common in Latin America, Africa, Asia and Southern Europe, namely in all places not big enough to be colonialists themselves. Greece has been a protectorate and semi-colony (with some parts, like the Dodecanese, Ionian Islands and Cyprus being actual colonies to Italians, British, etc) ever since the country was established. From foreign powers sending a German king to rule the place in early 19th century, down to helping establish a military dictatorship back in the late sixties.