4 ms·

You still seem to be confusing the issue. This isn't about fitness which is trainable. This is about coordination. I'm also talking about the general case, not

by trapper 17y ago

You still seem to be confusing the issue. This isn't about fitness which is trainable. This is about coordination. I'm also talking about the general case, not a specific case. People who do gymnastics tend to be much more gifted with coordination than swimmers. Also, your money would be on the swimmer in a fight? Are you serious? Perhaps you are thinking of rythmic gymnastics? http://www.verticaljumping.com/images/male_gymnast.jpg http://www.verticaljumping.com/images/male_gymnast.jpg http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Dhs0-1T9VXw/SC-0HhRMdEI/AAAAAAAAB90/tyxx6Tny5kk/s400/olympian-beijing-bound.jpg http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Dhs0-1T9VXw/SC-0HhRMdEI/AAAAAAAAB9...

giardini 17y ago
No, I wasn't talking about fitness. And is "coordination" indeed not trainable? Perhaps people who do gymnastics are, as you say, more "coordinated" because they "coordinate" more (i.e., train more)? Swimmers are, on average taller/bigger than gymnasts. In a fight, the bigger guy/gal usually wins. That's a lesson you should have learned in the first grade. Schools these days!
- trapper 17y ago
  Coordination is trainable absolutely, but people also tend to self select sports which they excel at naturally. What does that tell you? Who would your money be on to learn baseball, weightlifting and cross country skiing: a swimmer or a gymnast? You also may be interested in: http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?section=swimming&id=3135624 http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?section=swimming&id=... Key quote: "I don't remember what it was, but I have scars all over my body just literally from falling all over the place" The assertion about size in fights only holds when all else is equal, which is rarely the case. Gymnasts are extremely strong due to spending most of their training holding up their entire body in strange positions. Swimmers on the other hand are extremely weak (look in the literature if you don't believe me) due to the amount of time spent training supported by the water. Plus there are huge speed and explosiveness differences as well. I know where my money would be.
  - giardini 17y ago
    In baseball, maybe the gymnast, but the extended reach of the swimmer and his/her ability to bat harder might win out. In weightlifting, definitely the swimmer. In cross country skiing, the gymnast, for the following reason. Weight is proportional to the cube of body size (length) while muscular strength is proportional to body size. The strength/weight ratio is inversely proportional to the square of body size. As size increases strength increases proportionately but the power/weight ratio goes down rapidly. Fleas are an extreme example: they can broad-jump like no person. Shorter people, like fleas, have an advantage in some sports (e.g., gymnastics) because of their higher power/weight ratio. This also makes a difference in endurance events where shorter people can sometimes perform exceptionally well because they expend less energy per mile. Don't waste your money on old myths. Serious swimmers today do weight training. Big people are stronger than small people generally. If you don't believe me, pick a fight with a mean guy who's taller than you. Or better yet, pick a fight with a mean, tall competitive swimmer.
    - trapper 17y ago
      Did you even read the attached article? This is not an isolated case, as I mentioned with the olympic swimmers who were unable to ride a bike. I'm not sure where you get your info from about "tall" people are stronger, perhaps you should tell that to the international weightlifting federation or the powerlifting federation. I'm sure they would be interested. Also, the UFC should just throw out all the smaller guys, and just select purely on height. :)
      - giardini 17y ago
        "Did you even read the attached article?" Yes, I read the article, which states that Michael Phelps is clumsy. Anecdotal. From your earlier post: "Funny anecdote: a recent olympic swimming team failed to ride to the stadium in Beijing because most of them couldn't ride bikes." I'm skeptical about this. I've been in Beijing traffic. Also consider the indignity: Olympic swimmers riding bicycles (not their sport) to the stadium, heads bowed over and the risk of falling on their face before thousands of people and getting injured. In contrast compare walking proudly upright, waving with both hands to the crowd. Claiming that one is not able to ride a bicycle seems like an excellent face-saving excuse for all parties involved. "where you get your info from about "tall" people are stronger" I got it in first grade on the playground. But it's also been in the literature for decades, if not centuries. http://lmgtfy.com/?q=muscle+strength+vs+height http://lmgtfy.com/?q=muscle+strength+vs+height The conclusion from the first URL http://jap.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/89/3/1061 http://jap.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/89/3/1061 "The principal conclusions of this study are that muscle strength and height are related by a common factor and that muscle strength approaches absolute maxima at heights of ~183 cm for men and ~175 cm for women, at least using current training techniques." a conclusion nicely illustrated by the first graph at http://jap.physiology.org/content/vol89/issue3/images/large/dg0900178001.jpeg http://jap.physiology.org/content/vol89/issue3/images/large/...

by trapper 17y ago

giardini 17y ago

No, I wasn't talking about fitness. And is "coordination" indeed not trainable? Perhaps people who do gymnastics are, as you say, more "coordinated" because they "coordinate" more (i.e., train more)? Swimmers are, on average taller/bigger than gymnasts. In a fight, the bigger guy/gal usually wins. That's a lesson you should have learned in the first grade. Schools these days!

trapper 17y ago
Coordination is trainable absolutely, but people also tend to self select sports which they excel at naturally. What does that tell you? Who would your money be on to learn baseball, weightlifting and cross country skiing: a swimmer or a gymnast? You also may be interested in: http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?section=swimming&id=3135624 http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?section=swimming&id=... Key quote: "I don't remember what it was, but I have scars all over my body just literally from falling all over the place" The assertion about size in fights only holds when all else is equal, which is rarely the case. Gymnasts are extremely strong due to spending most of their training holding up their entire body in strange positions. Swimmers on the other hand are extremely weak (look in the literature if you don't believe me) due to the amount of time spent training supported by the water. Plus there are huge speed and explosiveness differences as well. I know where my money would be.
- giardini 17y ago
  In baseball, maybe the gymnast, but the extended reach of the swimmer and his/her ability to bat harder might win out. In weightlifting, definitely the swimmer. In cross country skiing, the gymnast, for the following reason. Weight is proportional to the cube of body size (length) while muscular strength is proportional to body size. The strength/weight ratio is inversely proportional to the square of body size. As size increases strength increases proportionately but the power/weight ratio goes down rapidly. Fleas are an extreme example: they can broad-jump like no person. Shorter people, like fleas, have an advantage in some sports (e.g., gymnastics) because of their higher power/weight ratio. This also makes a difference in endurance events where shorter people can sometimes perform exceptionally well because they expend less energy per mile. Don't waste your money on old myths. Serious swimmers today do weight training. Big people are stronger than small people generally. If you don't believe me, pick a fight with a mean guy who's taller than you. Or better yet, pick a fight with a mean, tall competitive swimmer.
  - trapper 17y ago
    Did you even read the attached article? This is not an isolated case, as I mentioned with the olympic swimmers who were unable to ride a bike. I'm not sure where you get your info from about "tall" people are stronger, perhaps you should tell that to the international weightlifting federation or the powerlifting federation. I'm sure they would be interested. Also, the UFC should just throw out all the smaller guys, and just select purely on height. :)
    - giardini 17y ago
      "Did you even read the attached article?" Yes, I read the article, which states that Michael Phelps is clumsy. Anecdotal. From your earlier post: "Funny anecdote: a recent olympic swimming team failed to ride to the stadium in Beijing because most of them couldn't ride bikes." I'm skeptical about this. I've been in Beijing traffic. Also consider the indignity: Olympic swimmers riding bicycles (not their sport) to the stadium, heads bowed over and the risk of falling on their face before thousands of people and getting injured. In contrast compare walking proudly upright, waving with both hands to the crowd. Claiming that one is not able to ride a bicycle seems like an excellent face-saving excuse for all parties involved. "where you get your info from about "tall" people are stronger" I got it in first grade on the playground. But it's also been in the literature for decades, if not centuries. http://lmgtfy.com/?q=muscle+strength+vs+height http://lmgtfy.com/?q=muscle+strength+vs+height The conclusion from the first URL http://jap.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/89/3/1061 http://jap.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/89/3/1061 "The principal conclusions of this study are that muscle strength and height are related by a common factor and that muscle strength approaches absolute maxima at heights of ~183 cm for men and ~175 cm for women, at least using current training techniques." a conclusion nicely illustrated by the first graph at http://jap.physiology.org/content/vol89/issue3/images/large/dg0900178001.jpeg http://jap.physiology.org/content/vol89/issue3/images/large/...