4 ms·

> I'd have to live in a tent with my family of 4 and eat ramen and the occasional squirrel. Or a "stone cottage in the Kumaon". We've been trained to maximize

by basseq 11y ago

> I'd have to live in a tent with my family of 4 and eat ramen and the occasional squirrel. Or a "stone cottage in the Kumaon". We've been trained to maximize the curve: could you live an albeit different life on 60% of your pay and work three days a week? Most of us work five days a week: why don't you work all seven days a week and make 40% more?

gregd 11y ago
could you live an albeit different life on 60% of your pay and work three days a week? Yes. It consists of a tent, eating ramen and the occasional squirrel.
- balabaster 11y ago
  You haven't really considered the alternatives available to you. A non-exhaustive list of possible solutions include: Do you have a yard or patio space? Start growing your own produce. Seeds are cheap and with a bit of time and love will pay you back forever more. Tomatoes, peppers and herbs will all grow well on a window sill. Potatoes, onions and garlic will all grow in a bag in the back of the pantry if you let them. You can multiply potatoes, onions and garlic quite easily. A big bag of flour can be found cheap (Costco for instance), make your own bread/pasta. That way you can supplement your Ramen with nutritious meals without breaking the bank. If you're in California (or somewhere else with a high amount of sunlight, which many HN readers appear to be) perhaps think about the option of solar panels on your roof to reduce your power bill (flyers and auctions are great places to find these cheap, Google will help you with installation and then you just need to find an inspector). Actually look at everything you spend money on in a month and ask yourself if there's a cheaper way to get those things without costing you so much money... and really look for solutions, you'd be surprised what you can find with a bit of ingenuity/creativity.
  - gregd 11y ago
    How would you know I haven't really considered the alternatives to living cheaper? I don't have a yard to grow vegetables. We live in an apartment. When we lived in Portland, we had a yard to grow vegetables but our monthly water bill was prohibitively expensive (we're talking hundreds of dollars every 3 months). Costco has a yearly membership fee, which I think at a minimum, is up to $75/year. I work full time and my wife is in school full time in another city. We have 2 children (I have 4 altogether) who are school age. How the fuck am I supposed to make bread and pasta? Our rent is just shy of $1400/month. Buying solar panels? What do solar panels cost nowadays and how much is installation? I can't install solar panels in my apartment. I don't have a car payment because our only car is paid off. Except for student loans, we are debt free. Edited to add: The other huge expense for us now is healthcare. The cost of healthcare for a family of 4 is astronomical.
    - organsnyder 11y ago
      It sounds like you're unable/unwilling to consider relocating as a way to minimize cost. That's fine—everyone is entitled to live where they feel is best for them—but there are plenty of locations where you could get much more space, in a good location, for less than $1400/month.
      - gregd 11y ago
        What I don't understand, is the comment about relocating like it's like taking a walk in the park. Have you taken a look at how expensive simply moving is? There's the rental truck or pod, there's first, last and security deposit for the new place. Sometimes there's a doubling up of rent. If you're moving to different cities, there's the price of gas or diesel for your moving truck. Not to mention the time and energy it takes to pack up and move. Relocating isn't as easy as some people make it out to be....
        balabaster 11y ago
        I'd second this notion, having moved just about every year for the past 16 years, sometimes to different provinces and countries it's exhausting and can be extremely expensive. Sometimes you don't realize any savings from a move for many months or in some cases, years... and if you're unlucky, you don't realize any savings at all and in fact, hidden costs that you hadn't accounted for can end up costing you money or sinking you into a hole. So moving can also be a risk, sometimes, it's better the devil you know than the devil you don't. Moving cheaply requires good timing, a handy amount of free labour (i.e. friends that own trucks and owe you favours or like you enough to help just out of the goodness of their own hearts), a little good luck, a keen eye on available real estate and good negotiation skills. Without all of these lining up, it's likely to cost a bit.
        fizgig 11y ago
        Moving cheaply can also be done if you don't have (or keep) much stuff. A couple of years ago, I got divorced, so I wiped the slate clean. Everything I couldn't fit into my beat-up 4-door sedan got thrown/given/donated away. I then drove 2500 miles to start building a new life in a different region of the country (US) where I had a job waiting for me. Maybe $500 in reimbursable expenses for gas and a night's lodging, then staying at a by-the-week motel until I scouted the area made the transition relatively inexpensive. For many people, the cost of moving is directly proportionate to the quantity of stuff they own. I cut costs on moving by ridding myself of 95% of my stuff, and have been purchasing what I need in my new location. Sure, not having a wife, 2.5 kids, and a dog makes these kinds of life changes much easier. But the point of having less stuff is still valid.

by basseq 11y ago

gregd 11y ago

could you live an albeit different life on 60% of your pay and work three days a week? Yes. It consists of a tent, eating ramen and the occasional squirrel.

balabaster 11y ago
You haven't really considered the alternatives available to you. A non-exhaustive list of possible solutions include: Do you have a yard or patio space? Start growing your own produce. Seeds are cheap and with a bit of time and love will pay you back forever more. Tomatoes, peppers and herbs will all grow well on a window sill. Potatoes, onions and garlic will all grow in a bag in the back of the pantry if you let them. You can multiply potatoes, onions and garlic quite easily. A big bag of flour can be found cheap (Costco for instance), make your own bread/pasta. That way you can supplement your Ramen with nutritious meals without breaking the bank. If you're in California (or somewhere else with a high amount of sunlight, which many HN readers appear to be) perhaps think about the option of solar panels on your roof to reduce your power bill (flyers and auctions are great places to find these cheap, Google will help you with installation and then you just need to find an inspector). Actually look at everything you spend money on in a month and ask yourself if there's a cheaper way to get those things without costing you so much money... and really look for solutions, you'd be surprised what you can find with a bit of ingenuity/creativity.
- gregd 11y ago
  How would you know I haven't really considered the alternatives to living cheaper? I don't have a yard to grow vegetables. We live in an apartment. When we lived in Portland, we had a yard to grow vegetables but our monthly water bill was prohibitively expensive (we're talking hundreds of dollars every 3 months). Costco has a yearly membership fee, which I think at a minimum, is up to $75/year. I work full time and my wife is in school full time in another city. We have 2 children (I have 4 altogether) who are school age. How the fuck am I supposed to make bread and pasta? Our rent is just shy of $1400/month. Buying solar panels? What do solar panels cost nowadays and how much is installation? I can't install solar panels in my apartment. I don't have a car payment because our only car is paid off. Except for student loans, we are debt free. Edited to add: The other huge expense for us now is healthcare. The cost of healthcare for a family of 4 is astronomical.
  - organsnyder 11y ago
    It sounds like you're unable/unwilling to consider relocating as a way to minimize cost. That's fine—everyone is entitled to live where they feel is best for them—but there are plenty of locations where you could get much more space, in a good location, for less than $1400/month.
    - gregd 11y ago
      What I don't understand, is the comment about relocating like it's like taking a walk in the park. Have you taken a look at how expensive simply moving is? There's the rental truck or pod, there's first, last and security deposit for the new place. Sometimes there's a doubling up of rent. If you're moving to different cities, there's the price of gas or diesel for your moving truck. Not to mention the time and energy it takes to pack up and move. Relocating isn't as easy as some people make it out to be....
      - balabaster 11y ago
        I'd second this notion, having moved just about every year for the past 16 years, sometimes to different provinces and countries it's exhausting and can be extremely expensive. Sometimes you don't realize any savings from a move for many months or in some cases, years... and if you're unlucky, you don't realize any savings at all and in fact, hidden costs that you hadn't accounted for can end up costing you money or sinking you into a hole. So moving can also be a risk, sometimes, it's better the devil you know than the devil you don't. Moving cheaply requires good timing, a handy amount of free labour (i.e. friends that own trucks and owe you favours or like you enough to help just out of the goodness of their own hearts), a little good luck, a keen eye on available real estate and good negotiation skills. Without all of these lining up, it's likely to cost a bit.
        fizgig 11y ago
        Moving cheaply can also be done if you don't have (or keep) much stuff. A couple of years ago, I got divorced, so I wiped the slate clean. Everything I couldn't fit into my beat-up 4-door sedan got thrown/given/donated away. I then drove 2500 miles to start building a new life in a different region of the country (US) where I had a job waiting for me. Maybe $500 in reimbursable expenses for gas and a night's lodging, then staying at a by-the-week motel until I scouted the area made the transition relatively inexpensive. For many people, the cost of moving is directly proportionate to the quantity of stuff they own. I cut costs on moving by ridding myself of 95% of my stuff, and have been purchasing what I need in my new location. Sure, not having a wife, 2.5 kids, and a dog makes these kinds of life changes much easier. But the point of having less stuff is still valid.