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I suspect that if the Putty dev created a Patreon for code signing, and posted it on HN and Reddit, he'd almost immediately have that $73/yr covered for the for

I suspect that if the Putty dev created a Patreon for code signing, and posted it on HN and Reddit, he'd almost immediately have that $73/yr covered for the foreseeable future.

Kluny 11y ago
And then some - I don't see a donate link anywhere on putty.org or the linked sites, but who wouldn't donate 5 bucks to putty, when they use it for free basically every day? I've paid 5 bucks for less useful programs.
- Symbiote 11y ago
  I remember reading the statement about beer and curry some years ago, so I knew there was a link somewhere: http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/faq.html#faq-donations http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/faq.html#f...
cat9 11y ago
Or "paid version is signed, free version is not."
joshstrange 11y ago
No doubt but we all need to remember that sometimes accepting money is more trouble than it's worth. I know that sounds crazy but people taking donations have to declare that on their taxes and some people don't want to deal with that. Also while crowdfunding platforms have gotten really easy they still take effort and sometimes some sort of verification process. It's obvious the putty dev is not a designer (I don't say that to be mean) so I'm sure there would be people here on HN that would be all like "Ugh, this guy is asking for money and he can't take 2 minutes to make his funding site look halfway decent???" (Those people would be clarified as douches but that wouldn't stop them from making the comment nor the dev potentially reading them). Lastly let's say he gets the money and takes care of the taxes and all of that. Now he has to get a code signing cert (not a fast or easy process I would assume) and add that to the list of things he needs to do for each release. We are talking about a non-trivial amount of work over a month or more all so that people will stop bitching about the FREE and OPEN SOURCE product he is producing... If you find code signing/HTTPS to be so important I suggest you do it yourself, the code is freely available and since it's under an MIT licence you can even SELL access to your code-signed and https-protected putty version. I'm not saying that either of these things are not important (they both are) but let's not jump down the dev's throat because they aren't giving up even more of their time on something they seen no return on.
- pdabbadabba 11y ago
  I certainly don't mean to jump down the dev's throat -- I have been using Putty for years (without, I must admit, a second thought about whether the binary might be compromised) with nothing but gratitude. And I don't think anyone else should direct their complaints at the dev either. My comments are addressed to those who complain, in a general way, that it is not easy enough for a developer to write trusted code. Putty seeks to perform a security-critical function. It may simply not be realistic to expect that someone can simply step into the market and provide such a tool safely, without putting some effort into building trust with users through, e.g., a code signing certificate. That, after all, is one of the reasons why trust works--it is non-trivial to build. Again, I don't blame a developer for not doing these things, and I am all for helping developers jump through the hoops they need to jump through, if they are willing.
  - joshstrange 11y ago
    I understand what you are saying about "Putty seeks to perform a security-critical function." and therefore it should take these things into account (in a perfect world). I don't speak for all developers, obviously, but I'd wager a guess that most developers don't code (for OS at least) to "corner the market" or essentially become and run a mini-corporation (Twitter, Blog, Github, HTTPS, Code Signing, Website w/ Landing page, etc). They do it to scratch their own itch or to help someone else scratch theirs. Once they finish they upload it to github or some code-hosting platform as way to share the work they've done and contribute back into the community. TBH we are lucky they do even that. To ask them to provide and maintain extra processes just seems a little wrong. I get that code-signing and HTTPS ARE important and probably needed for a tool like this but I think the question we should be asking is "How can we help get to that point?" and not "Why hasn't the developer done this already?!?!". The fact that the developer continues to update/bug fix this program is amazing (as recently as "2015-02-28") and I worry about driving off a developer/contributor just because they didn't do a few things that probably don't interest them at all. I say all of that less towards you and more generally in the context of this thread as you did point out "I am all for helping developers jump through the hoops they need to jump through, if they are willing".

I suspect that if the Putty dev created a Patreon for code signing, and posted it on HN and Reddit, he'd almost immediately have that $73/yr covered for the foreseeable future.

Kluny 11y ago

And then some - I don't see a donate link anywhere on putty.org or the linked sites, but who wouldn't donate 5 bucks to putty, when they use it for free basically every day? I've paid 5 bucks for less useful programs.

Symbiote 11y ago
I remember reading the statement about beer and curry some years ago, so I knew there was a link somewhere: http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/faq.html#faq-donations http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/faq.html#f...

cat9 11y ago

Or "paid version is signed, free version is not."

joshstrange 11y ago

No doubt but we all need to remember that sometimes accepting money is more trouble than it's worth. I know that sounds crazy but people taking donations have to declare that on their taxes and some people don't want to deal with that. Also while crowdfunding platforms have gotten really easy they still take effort and sometimes some sort of verification process. It's obvious the putty dev is not a designer (I don't say that to be mean) so I'm sure there would be people here on HN that would be all like "Ugh, this guy is asking for money and he can't take 2 minutes to make his funding site look halfway decent???" (Those people would be clarified as douches but that wouldn't stop them from making the comment nor the dev potentially reading them). Lastly let's say he gets the money and takes care of the taxes and all of that. Now he has to get a code signing cert (not a fast or easy process I would assume) and add that to the list of things he needs to do for each release. We are talking about a non-trivial amount of work over a month or more all so that people will stop bitching about the FREE and OPEN SOURCE product he is producing... If you find code signing/HTTPS to be so important I suggest you do it yourself, the code is freely available and since it's under an MIT licence you can even SELL access to your code-signed and https-protected putty version. I'm not saying that either of these things are not important (they both are) but let's not jump down the dev's throat because they aren't giving up even more of their time on something they seen no return on.

pdabbadabba 11y ago
I certainly don't mean to jump down the dev's throat -- I have been using Putty for years (without, I must admit, a second thought about whether the binary might be compromised) with nothing but gratitude. And I don't think anyone else should direct their complaints at the dev either. My comments are addressed to those who complain, in a general way, that it is not easy enough for a developer to write trusted code. Putty seeks to perform a security-critical function. It may simply not be realistic to expect that someone can simply step into the market and provide such a tool safely, without putting some effort into building trust with users through, e.g., a code signing certificate. That, after all, is one of the reasons why trust works--it is non-trivial to build. Again, I don't blame a developer for not doing these things, and I am all for helping developers jump through the hoops they need to jump through, if they are willing.
- joshstrange 11y ago
  I understand what you are saying about "Putty seeks to perform a security-critical function." and therefore it should take these things into account (in a perfect world). I don't speak for all developers, obviously, but I'd wager a guess that most developers don't code (for OS at least) to "corner the market" or essentially become and run a mini-corporation (Twitter, Blog, Github, HTTPS, Code Signing, Website w/ Landing page, etc). They do it to scratch their own itch or to help someone else scratch theirs. Once they finish they upload it to github or some code-hosting platform as way to share the work they've done and contribute back into the community. TBH we are lucky they do even that. To ask them to provide and maintain extra processes just seems a little wrong. I get that code-signing and HTTPS ARE important and probably needed for a tool like this but I think the question we should be asking is "How can we help get to that point?" and not "Why hasn't the developer done this already?!?!". The fact that the developer continues to update/bug fix this program is amazing (as recently as "2015-02-28") and I worry about driving off a developer/contributor just because they didn't do a few things that probably don't interest them at all. I say all of that less towards you and more generally in the context of this thread as you did point out "I am all for helping developers jump through the hoops they need to jump through, if they are willing".