6 ms·

I don't think that's much clearer than a lisp equivalent: (todo "housework" (item (priority high) "Clean the house.") (item (priority mediu

I don't think that's much clearer than a lisp equivalent: (todo "housework" (item (priority high) "Clean the house.") (item (priority medium) "Wash the dishes.") (item (priority medium) "Buy more soap.")) Yours looks nicer, but if I wanted to operate on your todo there, it's not obvious how just by looking. With the lisp, it's obvious: There's a list of 5 elements. The last three are 'items', each of which is a list of 3 elements. The benefit of s-expressions isn't just that they're flexible in what you can write with them, but that they're easy to manipulate programmatically, and their structure is immediately obvious.

kazinator 11y ago
I would say there are too many distracting "tags" in that which may be unnecessary ("XML disease"). For instance, look how you just indicated with a tag that the elements of a list are "items". In Lisp! (todo "name" (item ...) (item ...) (item ...)). Basically the symbol todo is enough of a clue about the structure, and the pure syntax can determine most of the rest, with possibly a modicum of keywords here and there. (todo housework ;; symbols for naming! (:high "Clean the house") (:medium "Wash the dishes") (:medium "Buy more soap"))
- draegtun 11y ago
  I was thinking the same but using Rebol: todo [ housework high: "Clean the house" medium: "Wash the dishes" medium: "Buy more soap" ] And this is so easy to validate & use via the parse dialect that comes with Rebol. Here's a validation example: todo-rule: [ set task-name word! some [ set item-priority set-word! set item-desc string! ] ] >> parse [bad] todo-rule == false >> parse [incomplete high:] todo-rule == false >> parse [incorrect high: "item1" "erggh!"] todo-rule == false >> parse [housework high: "foo" medium: "bar" medium: "baz"] todo-rule == true
breuleux 11y ago
S-expressions are not obvious "just by looking" either. Don't forget you had to learn what they were and how they worked. You know that `(a b c)` is a list of three elements, that the first element can be extracted with the `car` function, and the rest with `cdr`, and so on. You also know that `(a b)` is shorthand for `(a . (b . nil))`, which helps a lot in knowing how to manipulate it. The fact that you are already familiar with Lisp taints your perception. Not to mention Lisps, especially the new ones, throw obviousness out the window with merry abandon. Let's look at Clojure. You think it's obvious how to operate on Clojure? Here: `(let [a 1, b 2] (+ a b))`. What is that? I've mostly coded in Scheme, I don't know what square brackets are supposed to do. Vectors? How do I manipulate them and what are they doing in my let? And what does the comma do? Oh, nothing? Then why is it there? And if the comma means nothing are you telling me that if I want to list the names that are being defined by this form, I need to extract the even-indexed elements of a vector? Sure I can do that, but don't tell me you care about ease of manipulation. Anyway, sorry for the rant ;) I think the point I really want to make here is that sure, s-expressions are quite simple, but if I can explain how s-expressions work in a minute, and how my expressions work in five minutes, this isn't really a matter of ease of manipulation, this is a matter of laziness. If a language's source-to-AST rules can be fully explained in one or two paragraphs or a small table, and can be easily remembered, then that's all that matters. I think that `a b: c` <=> `a(b, c)` is trivial enough that it does not have any meaningful impact on ease of manipulation.

kazinator 11y ago

I would say there are too many distracting "tags" in that which may be unnecessary ("XML disease"). For instance, look how you just indicated with a tag that the elements of a list are "items". In Lisp! (todo "name" (item ...) (item ...) (item ...)). Basically the symbol todo is enough of a clue about the structure, and the pure syntax can determine most of the rest, with possibly a modicum of keywords here and there. (todo housework ;; symbols for naming! (:high "Clean the house") (:medium "Wash the dishes") (:medium "Buy more soap"))

draegtun 11y ago
I was thinking the same but using Rebol: todo [ housework high: "Clean the house" medium: "Wash the dishes" medium: "Buy more soap" ] And this is so easy to validate & use via the parse dialect that comes with Rebol. Here's a validation example: todo-rule: [ set task-name word! some [ set item-priority set-word! set item-desc string! ] ] >> parse [bad] todo-rule == false >> parse [incomplete high:] todo-rule == false >> parse [incorrect high: "item1" "erggh!"] todo-rule == false >> parse [housework high: "foo" medium: "bar" medium: "baz"] todo-rule == true

breuleux 11y ago

S-expressions are not obvious "just by looking" either. Don't forget you had to learn what they were and how they worked. You know that `(a b c)` is a list of three elements, that the first element can be extracted with the `car` function, and the rest with `cdr`, and so on. You also know that `(a b)` is shorthand for `(a . (b . nil))`, which helps a lot in knowing how to manipulate it. The fact that you are already familiar with Lisp taints your perception. Not to mention Lisps, especially the new ones, throw obviousness out the window with merry abandon. Let's look at Clojure. You think it's obvious how to operate on Clojure? Here: `(let [a 1, b 2] (+ a b))`. What is that? I've mostly coded in Scheme, I don't know what square brackets are supposed to do. Vectors? How do I manipulate them and what are they doing in my let? And what does the comma do? Oh, nothing? Then why is it there? And if the comma means nothing are you telling me that if I want to list the names that are being defined by this form, I need to extract the even-indexed elements of a vector? Sure I can do that, but don't tell me you care about ease of manipulation. Anyway, sorry for the rant ;) I think the point I really want to make here is that sure, s-expressions are quite simple, but if I can explain how s-expressions work in a minute, and how my expressions work in five minutes, this isn't really a matter of ease of manipulation, this is a matter of laziness. If a language's source-to-AST rules can be fully explained in one or two paragraphs or a small table, and can be easily remembered, then that's all that matters. I think that `a b: c` <=> `a(b, c)` is trivial enough that it does not have any meaningful impact on ease of manipulation.