5 ms·

This is something I've seen as well - PayPal does not like the idea (for some reason) of people using their service for events. I'm personally aware of two even

This is something I've seen as well - PayPal does not like the idea (for some reason) of people using their service for events. I'm personally aware of two event coordinators who had large sums of money tied up by PayPal at the last minute (around $10k and $20k) so that I never used them for my own events. Stripe all the way, never a problem.

hga 11y ago
I gather that PayPal's secret to success is strong anti-fraud measures (and not caring about false positives), and one of them is freezing accounts that get a flood of money all at once. That also is a pattern you see in events and charities set up for a new disaster.
- saurik 11y ago
  PayPal does not consider conferences a "false positive". Small events often fail: the speakers cancel, the venue falls through, not enough people buy tickets to cover costs... if you are using incoming ticket money today for things, you are essentially taking investments, not payments. PayPal's response to this is to hold most of the money until one day after the conference, as otherwise, when your conference fails, and the attendees make a ton of chargebacks, they know they are going to not be able to get their money back and they will be out thousands of dollars. This is not unreasonable behavior on their part, and is part of a very consistent pattern of response: they don't let you use their service to sell promises of any kind. This actually leads to PayPal being very user-focussed--essentially always protecting users from even having to think about whether something might end up stealing their money--which is actually good for those for users, and by proxy, good for those of us who use PayPal to sell legitimate products. (FWIW, you can use PayPal to sell event tickets, but be prepared to appreciate what is happening in the mind of PayPal--which should hopefully cause you to not being unreasonable or abrasive in your communication, though even if they were being bad that isn't an excuse to get angry at them--and reach out to their underwriting department to prove you are financially solvent in a way that doesn't rely on the success of the event, and preferably also provide evidence that your event will also work.)
  - thirsteh 11y ago
    So how do you like the PayPal campus? ;)
  - nine_k 11y ago
    > PayPal being very user-focussed This works well for only the paying side of the user base. Yes, PayPal is a very convenient way to pay, e.g. in an Internet store. Those who receive the money have much harder time, though. All complains I saw were from guys having their accounts frozen when money pour in too fast.
  - pyre 11y ago
    How is it that these people can jump to another provider and not end up with the same issues then?
    - URSpider94 11y ago
      Most likely, the other providers have not achieved the same level of "success" that Paypal have, and therefore haven't reached steady state in terms of risk losses. Or, they have painted themselves in a corner by advertising that they are much more business-friendly than PayPal, and are taking losses on the chin in the hopes of growing/inventing their way out of the problem.
      - pyre 11y ago
        Why has PayPal not started some sort of program (extra verification, etc) so that legit people attempting to do these things can use them without running into anti-fraud?
    - s73v3r 11y ago
      Part of why those other providers sprung up is because PayPal is a big bag of dicks.
  - tomjen3 11y ago
    >though even if they were being bad that isn't an excuse to get angry at them--and reach out to their underwriting department to prove you are financially solvent in a way that doesn't rely on the success of the event, and preferably also provide evidence that your event will also work.)
leephillips 11y ago
As long as we're accumulating anecdotes: I run the website for an organization that puts on shows every month. We sell tickets through Paypal and have never had a problem. We're talking hundreds of $s rather than thousands, though.

hga 11y ago

I gather that PayPal's secret to success is strong anti-fraud measures (and not caring about false positives), and one of them is freezing accounts that get a flood of money all at once. That also is a pattern you see in events and charities set up for a new disaster.

saurik 11y ago
PayPal does not consider conferences a "false positive". Small events often fail: the speakers cancel, the venue falls through, not enough people buy tickets to cover costs... if you are using incoming ticket money today for things, you are essentially taking investments, not payments. PayPal's response to this is to hold most of the money until one day after the conference, as otherwise, when your conference fails, and the attendees make a ton of chargebacks, they know they are going to not be able to get their money back and they will be out thousands of dollars. This is not unreasonable behavior on their part, and is part of a very consistent pattern of response: they don't let you use their service to sell promises of any kind. This actually leads to PayPal being very user-focussed--essentially always protecting users from even having to think about whether something might end up stealing their money--which is actually good for those for users, and by proxy, good for those of us who use PayPal to sell legitimate products. (FWIW, you can use PayPal to sell event tickets, but be prepared to appreciate what is happening in the mind of PayPal--which should hopefully cause you to not being unreasonable or abrasive in your communication, though even if they were being bad that isn't an excuse to get angry at them--and reach out to their underwriting department to prove you are financially solvent in a way that doesn't rely on the success of the event, and preferably also provide evidence that your event will also work.)
- thirsteh 11y ago
  So how do you like the PayPal campus? ;)
- nine_k 11y ago
  > PayPal being very user-focussed This works well for only the paying side of the user base. Yes, PayPal is a very convenient way to pay, e.g. in an Internet store. Those who receive the money have much harder time, though. All complains I saw were from guys having their accounts frozen when money pour in too fast.
- pyre 11y ago
  How is it that these people can jump to another provider and not end up with the same issues then?
  - URSpider94 11y ago
    Most likely, the other providers have not achieved the same level of "success" that Paypal have, and therefore haven't reached steady state in terms of risk losses. Or, they have painted themselves in a corner by advertising that they are much more business-friendly than PayPal, and are taking losses on the chin in the hopes of growing/inventing their way out of the problem.
    - pyre 11y ago
      Why has PayPal not started some sort of program (extra verification, etc) so that legit people attempting to do these things can use them without running into anti-fraud?
  - s73v3r 11y ago
    Part of why those other providers sprung up is because PayPal is a big bag of dicks.
- tomjen3 11y ago
  >though even if they were being bad that isn't an excuse to get angry at them--and reach out to their underwriting department to prove you are financially solvent in a way that doesn't rely on the success of the event, and preferably also provide evidence that your event will also work.)

leephillips 11y ago

As long as we're accumulating anecdotes: I run the website for an organization that puts on shows every month. We sell tickets through Paypal and have never had a problem. We're talking hundreds of $s rather than thousands, though.