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> Are there folks here who see him as less a hero more a villain? I see him as neither hero nor villain. He has undertaken certain actions, such as leaking th

> Are there folks here who see him as less a hero more a villain? I see him as neither hero nor villain. He has undertaken certain actions, such as leaking the NSA's illegal warrantless surveillance of Americans, that took a lot of courage and may result in positive changes if we really make use of what was leaked. For this he should be commended. He sacrificed his life in the US for this. Let's do what we can to make it worthwhile. He has also undertaken certain actions that, in my opinion, do not relate to American civil liberties and could be damaging. For instance, leaking how the US is spying on foreign nations, which is the whole reason for the NSA to exist. These actions make it easy to cast Snowden as at worst a traitor (not my belief) and at best misguided (which is what I personally believe; he should have been more discriminating in his leaks).

pyre 11y ago
> For instance, leaking how the US is spying on foreign nations, which is the whole reason for the NSA to exist. True, but this also paints the US leaders as hypocrites. Snowden showed that the NSA was hacking Chinese computers at a time when the US was loudly proclaiming innocence while denouncing "Chinese hacking."
- irishcoffee 11y ago
  Of course the US denies that. China denies they do it to the US, but they "hack" the US every single day. China has to deny it as well. Admitting hacking could be seen as an act of war. Use your brain.
  - pyre 11y ago
    > Admitting hacking could be seen as an act of war. Use your brain. It's less about the US openly admitting to it, and more about the general public not using their brains and eating up what the politicians are serving them. Many in the US take those "evil Chinese hackers" statements at face-value and would believe that the US would only be hacking military targets in China (rather than hacking the Chinese general public to create botnets, etc).
UweSchmidt 11y ago
> For instance, leaking how the US is spying on foreign nations, which is the whole reason for the NSA to exist. Similarly how a military is designed to potentially fight against other nations, but is usually not doing that all time in an all-out fashion, intelligence agencies have their place but should not necessarily spy indiscriminately on everyone, all the time. While we are mostly civilized enough not to have random troops roaming around like in the Thirty Years' War, the concept of using restraint in surveillance, or cyber warfare in general is not developed very much.
jules 11y ago
Why is leaking a massive spying program on innocent Americans courageous, but leaking a massive spying program on innocent non-Americans misguided? Morality doesn't stop at the border, people on the other side of it are humans too.
ionised 11y ago
> For instance, leaking how the US is spying on foreign nations, which is the whole reason for the NSA to exist. As a non-US citizen I wholeheartedly thank Snowden for doing this, as it also shed light on the threat to me from the US (NSA) and from my own UK government (GCHQ). There is nothing I could ever think badly of him for in this situation.

pyre 11y ago

> For instance, leaking how the US is spying on foreign nations, which is the whole reason for the NSA to exist. True, but this also paints the US leaders as hypocrites. Snowden showed that the NSA was hacking Chinese computers at a time when the US was loudly proclaiming innocence while denouncing "Chinese hacking."

irishcoffee 11y ago
Of course the US denies that. China denies they do it to the US, but they "hack" the US every single day. China has to deny it as well. Admitting hacking could be seen as an act of war. Use your brain.
- pyre 11y ago
  > Admitting hacking could be seen as an act of war. Use your brain. It's less about the US openly admitting to it, and more about the general public not using their brains and eating up what the politicians are serving them. Many in the US take those "evil Chinese hackers" statements at face-value and would believe that the US would only be hacking military targets in China (rather than hacking the Chinese general public to create botnets, etc).

UweSchmidt 11y ago

> For instance, leaking how the US is spying on foreign nations, which is the whole reason for the NSA to exist. Similarly how a military is designed to potentially fight against other nations, but is usually not doing that all time in an all-out fashion, intelligence agencies have their place but should not necessarily spy indiscriminately on everyone, all the time. While we are mostly civilized enough not to have random troops roaming around like in the Thirty Years' War, the concept of using restraint in surveillance, or cyber warfare in general is not developed very much.

jules 11y ago

Why is leaking a massive spying program on innocent Americans courageous, but leaking a massive spying program on innocent non-Americans misguided? Morality doesn't stop at the border, people on the other side of it are humans too.

ionised 11y ago

> For instance, leaking how the US is spying on foreign nations, which is the whole reason for the NSA to exist. As a non-US citizen I wholeheartedly thank Snowden for doing this, as it also shed light on the threat to me from the US (NSA) and from my own UK government (GCHQ). There is nothing I could ever think badly of him for in this situation.