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I don't think we agree or disagree with you so much as you haven't made any strong statements to agree or disagree with. What do you think his fate would be now

I don't think we agree or disagree with you so much as you haven't made any strong statements to agree or disagree with. What do you think his fate would be now, had he released the documents then turned himself over to US authorities?

blumkvist 11y ago
I replied to a commenter who asked if there were people who don't think Snowden is a hero. I don't think Snowden is a hero. That's my opinion and that was my reply. The overgrown kindergarteners of HN of course disagree and they have to show it by downvoting.
- vinceguidry 11y ago
  Disagreement is a perfectly valid reason for downvoting someone. You should expect that comments made on political topics are going to get downvoted by people who strongly disagree with you. But moderating your tone and angle of attack on such topics can go a long way towards avoiding them and can even get people who disagree with you to upvote you. Complaining about downvotes is only going to earn you more of them.
  - marrs 11y ago
    Disagreement is a perfectly valid reason for downvoting someone. No. It isn't. How would you feel if people shut you out of a discussion because they disagreed with you? If someone says something you disagree with, debate them. If they say something factually incorrect, correct them. They may even thank you for it. And guess what, they may end up changing your mind, or correcting a mistake on your part. Actively seeking to censor somebody for having a different perspective on something is frankly abhorant. I find it ironic that this kind of behaviour is being encouraged in this thread of all. Snowden's actions will prove to be a giant waste of effort if your kind get their way.
    - bad_user 11y ago
      I'm shutting people out of discussing with me like all the time. I close the phone on unwanted calls, I mark unsolicited emails as spam, I tell salesmen showing up on my door to fuck off and whenever deeply flawed opinions are spoken by my friends or family (on matters important to me, like racism, privacy, free speech), I get up and leave. It's how I keep sane. And as somebody that was born in Eastern Europe in a (now) ex-communist country, I must say that censorship (as used in your comment) is not incompatible with free speech. In fact it is required for people to have ways to filter out noise - you're still free to speak your mind regardless, therefore using that term doesn't win you any favors from my point of view ;-) Also, the comment being down-voted above is really noise. It doesn't add anything interesting to the conversation. If it would have been an interesting point of view, then I would have agreed that downvoting is bad, but noise is precisely what downvoting is for.
      - deciplex 11y ago
        Totally agree as long as you're making a good faith effort to distinguish noise (which I agree blumkvist's posts basically are, especially after the first one), from unfamiliar patterns of thought.
      - marrs 11y ago
        I'm shutting people out of discussing with me like all the time. And if you're down-voting comments on Hacker News you're also shutting them out for me as well as everyone else on this site. Also, the comment being down-voted above is really noise. No it's not. It's not going to win "insight of the month" but it's not a bait-and-switch, or a spambot, or a troll. It's a reply to a question. Do we all need to start practicing our poetry writing skills or something? The downvoted comment was this: I can't say I see him as a villain, but definitely not a hero. I hold back my judgement, because we are just too far away to know what's going on. He did expose some pretty bad practices to the general public, but asylum in Russia afterwards? Are you kidding me? That just looks super fishy to anyone with at least an ounce of critical thought in his brain. Especially in the context of the Crimea debacle.
        11y ago
  - MrScruff 11y ago
    If people use downvoting to express disagreement, that means that unpopular opinions are suppressed. I don't see that as a good thing. Downvoting because a post is rude or factually inaccurate is fine though.
    - vinceguidry 11y ago
      Suppressed only in that the text is somewhat harder to read. Doesn't keep anybody from reading it though. Even dead posts can be read if you have showdead on.

blumkvist 11y ago

I replied to a commenter who asked if there were people who don't think Snowden is a hero. I don't think Snowden is a hero. That's my opinion and that was my reply. The overgrown kindergarteners of HN of course disagree and they have to show it by downvoting.

vinceguidry 11y ago
Disagreement is a perfectly valid reason for downvoting someone. You should expect that comments made on political topics are going to get downvoted by people who strongly disagree with you. But moderating your tone and angle of attack on such topics can go a long way towards avoiding them and can even get people who disagree with you to upvote you. Complaining about downvotes is only going to earn you more of them.
- marrs 11y ago
  Disagreement is a perfectly valid reason for downvoting someone. No. It isn't. How would you feel if people shut you out of a discussion because they disagreed with you? If someone says something you disagree with, debate them. If they say something factually incorrect, correct them. They may even thank you for it. And guess what, they may end up changing your mind, or correcting a mistake on your part. Actively seeking to censor somebody for having a different perspective on something is frankly abhorant. I find it ironic that this kind of behaviour is being encouraged in this thread of all. Snowden's actions will prove to be a giant waste of effort if your kind get their way.
  - bad_user 11y ago
    I'm shutting people out of discussing with me like all the time. I close the phone on unwanted calls, I mark unsolicited emails as spam, I tell salesmen showing up on my door to fuck off and whenever deeply flawed opinions are spoken by my friends or family (on matters important to me, like racism, privacy, free speech), I get up and leave. It's how I keep sane. And as somebody that was born in Eastern Europe in a (now) ex-communist country, I must say that censorship (as used in your comment) is not incompatible with free speech. In fact it is required for people to have ways to filter out noise - you're still free to speak your mind regardless, therefore using that term doesn't win you any favors from my point of view ;-) Also, the comment being down-voted above is really noise. It doesn't add anything interesting to the conversation. If it would have been an interesting point of view, then I would have agreed that downvoting is bad, but noise is precisely what downvoting is for.
    - deciplex 11y ago
      Totally agree as long as you're making a good faith effort to distinguish noise (which I agree blumkvist's posts basically are, especially after the first one), from unfamiliar patterns of thought.
    - marrs 11y ago
      I'm shutting people out of discussing with me like all the time. And if you're down-voting comments on Hacker News you're also shutting them out for me as well as everyone else on this site. Also, the comment being down-voted above is really noise. No it's not. It's not going to win "insight of the month" but it's not a bait-and-switch, or a spambot, or a troll. It's a reply to a question. Do we all need to start practicing our poetry writing skills or something? The downvoted comment was this: I can't say I see him as a villain, but definitely not a hero. I hold back my judgement, because we are just too far away to know what's going on. He did expose some pretty bad practices to the general public, but asylum in Russia afterwards? Are you kidding me? That just looks super fishy to anyone with at least an ounce of critical thought in his brain. Especially in the context of the Crimea debacle.
      - 11y ago
- MrScruff 11y ago
  If people use downvoting to express disagreement, that means that unpopular opinions are suppressed. I don't see that as a good thing. Downvoting because a post is rude or factually inaccurate is fine though.
  - vinceguidry 11y ago
    Suppressed only in that the text is somewhat harder to read. Doesn't keep anybody from reading it though. Even dead posts can be read if you have showdead on.