5 ms·

I guess the best you can do is hopethat you know the laws for the area you live in. The u.s. has so many laws that are different across states and also so many

I guess the best you can do is hopethat you know the laws for the area you live in. The u.s. has so many laws that are different across states and also so many laws that are enforced arbitrarily. Some states you only have to verbally identify yourself to police. Some states you're required to show I.d. if requested. Some states you can decline a breathalyzer and other states you cannot. And if you know the law then you should exercise your rights to the limit of the law. Of course they keep passing new laws to push the limits in the other direction. And I don't think anyone wants to be a test case for throwing out a bad law in the courts. The problem is similar here in Switzerland with the exception that there are fewer laws and that the federal government has very little power (unlike the u.s. With its strong federal laws). For example, here in one canton you can grow 2 marijuana plants for your own use while in another canton you will go to jail for even a small amount of marijuana.

EliRivers 11y ago
That's all very well, but it turns out the armour of righteousness is poor protection against getting shot in the back by a policeman, who subsequently plants his excuse on your body. Coppers prepared to do that are hardly going to listen to people claiming their rights are being violated. I dread the day that standard plod in the UK carries a firearm.
- arethuza 11y ago
  Well I guess the good news is that the UK police seem pretty adamant that they don't want to be armed on normal duty.
  - dghf 11y ago
    Except with tasers: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/feb/09/police-federation-votes-tasers-uniformed-officers http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/feb/09/police-federati...
seatonist 11y ago
It's important to know one's rights, but I think that's by no means the best we can do. For starters, we can support organizations like the Equal Justice Initiative (http://www.eji.org http://www.eji.org) or the author of TFA's org, Equal Justice Under Law (http://equaljusticeunderlaw.org http://equaljusticeunderlaw.org) that are working to both defend indigent defendants and fundamentally reform the criminal justice system. Beyond that, I think that there is a lot of opportunity to advocate around these issues on the state and local level right now. Whatever you think of bodycams for police, you have to admit that in light of recent events they're going to become dramaticaly more common. That's just one example of how a crisis can provide a great opportunity for advocacy, and ultimately change. That's not to say that we will be able to make fundamental change quickly on this very difficult issue. But it is to say that there are paths forward, and I would invite people who care to dive in.
sillygoose 11y ago
There's this widespread misconception that there are things the police can't do to you because some text somewhere says so. In reality, it's just a question of what they want to do, and whether they can get away with it. For example, if an officer insists on seeing your ID even if the rulebook says you don't have to show it, he can escalate until he gets his way. A police officer can saw off your leg and feed it to some crocodiles if he wants to, and no one's looking or filming. But of course, this misconception is central to the belief in "the rule of law", which keeps us misguidedly comfortable with the fact that there's a bunch of guys in blue costumes who can abuse you as they please, confiscate all your cash, shoot your dog, or just ruin your life on a whim.
- a3n 11y ago
  There's a saying among cops, "You may beat the rap, but you can't beat the ride." In other words, they can harass you all they want, with impunity. "Oh, he was innocent? Well, darn."
  - sillygoose 11y ago
    Yep, and we're guilty of whatever bullshit crime they accuse us of, until we somehow prove we're not.. from jail, after having all our accounts seized.
- Cthulhu_ 11y ago
  That's why I support things like dash cams and cameras on police officers themselves - if they're not trustworthy, they need to be monitored and harshly dealt with.
  - sillygoose 11y ago
    They're never dealt with harshly though. Their idea of a punishment is a paid vacation (=suspension), after which the thug is free to do his thing again.

EliRivers 11y ago

That's all very well, but it turns out the armour of righteousness is poor protection against getting shot in the back by a policeman, who subsequently plants his excuse on your body. Coppers prepared to do that are hardly going to listen to people claiming their rights are being violated. I dread the day that standard plod in the UK carries a firearm.

arethuza 11y ago
Well I guess the good news is that the UK police seem pretty adamant that they don't want to be armed on normal duty.
- dghf 11y ago
  Except with tasers: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/feb/09/police-federation-votes-tasers-uniformed-officers http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/feb/09/police-federati...

seatonist 11y ago

It's important to know one's rights, but I think that's by no means the best we can do. For starters, we can support organizations like the Equal Justice Initiative (http://www.eji.org http://www.eji.org) or the author of TFA's org, Equal Justice Under Law (http://equaljusticeunderlaw.org http://equaljusticeunderlaw.org) that are working to both defend indigent defendants and fundamentally reform the criminal justice system. Beyond that, I think that there is a lot of opportunity to advocate around these issues on the state and local level right now. Whatever you think of bodycams for police, you have to admit that in light of recent events they're going to become dramaticaly more common. That's just one example of how a crisis can provide a great opportunity for advocacy, and ultimately change. That's not to say that we will be able to make fundamental change quickly on this very difficult issue. But it is to say that there are paths forward, and I would invite people who care to dive in.

sillygoose 11y ago

There's this widespread misconception that there are things the police can't do to you because some text somewhere says so. In reality, it's just a question of what they want to do, and whether they can get away with it. For example, if an officer insists on seeing your ID even if the rulebook says you don't have to show it, he can escalate until he gets his way. A police officer can saw off your leg and feed it to some crocodiles if he wants to, and no one's looking or filming. But of course, this misconception is central to the belief in "the rule of law", which keeps us misguidedly comfortable with the fact that there's a bunch of guys in blue costumes who can abuse you as they please, confiscate all your cash, shoot your dog, or just ruin your life on a whim.

a3n 11y ago
There's a saying among cops, "You may beat the rap, but you can't beat the ride." In other words, they can harass you all they want, with impunity. "Oh, he was innocent? Well, darn."
- sillygoose 11y ago
  Yep, and we're guilty of whatever bullshit crime they accuse us of, until we somehow prove we're not.. from jail, after having all our accounts seized.
Cthulhu_ 11y ago
That's why I support things like dash cams and cameras on police officers themselves - if they're not trustworthy, they need to be monitored and harshly dealt with.
- sillygoose 11y ago
  They're never dealt with harshly though. Their idea of a punishment is a paid vacation (=suspension), after which the thug is free to do his thing again.