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" If you doubt that, imagine what people in 1830 would think of our default educated east coast beliefs about, say, premarital sex, homosexuality, or the litera

" If you doubt that, imagine what people in 1830 would think of our default educated east coast beliefs about, say, premarital sex, homosexuality, or the literal truth of the Bible." Ben Franklin and Thomas Jefferson didn't believe the Bible to be literally correct. It's well documented. Jefferson even went as far as to create his own Bible, editing out most miracles, the resurrection, and immaculate conception.

jswinghammer 17y ago
We can be more general than that. It wasn't really until the fundamentalist movement that people felt inclined to defend the literal truth of the Bible. Catholics historically (going back to Augustine) have believed that parts of the Bible like the creation account in Genesis are allegorical rather than literal. They wouldn't have gone as far as Jefferson (obviously) but it's sort of a myth that Christians have always felt the need to defend the literal truth of everything in the Bible.
ericb 17y ago
Agreed--don't forget Thomas Paine. The whole "Christian Nation" thing peeves me. http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/thomas_paine/age_of_reason/part1.html#1 http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/thomas_paine/age_...
crystalis 17y ago
I'm not sure that Ben Franklin and Thomas Jefferson count as "people in 1830" in the same way that the Salem Witch Trials might constitute "people in 1692". I'm also of the opinion that you should also account for the other two points, even if to say that you don't mean to refute them by refuting the third.
- euroclydon 17y ago
  I am not trying to refute the other two points, I just quoted the whole sentence so it would make sense. I would like to think that the 1700s and 1800s represented a golden age in American religiosity, where our political and cultural leaders were deeply spiritual, yet not biblical literalists. Now, it seems that dialog has broken down and we are in fractious camps. I'm sure I am just romanticizing the period though.
  - crystalis 17y ago
    Thanks for the reply. I didn't think you were trying to refute the other two points, but I was interested in overt clarity. Whether or not you've romanticized, "Deist" no longer seems to be a position "mainstream" politicians can admit to.
tvon 17y ago
Premarital sex and homosexuality have also been around for thousands of years, but I think it's safe to say what is generally accepted by the mainstream ("of our default educated east coast beliefs") would shock & awe the mainstream of the 1830s.
- euroclydon 17y ago
  We can sort of account for pre-marital sex, since most fathers, irregardless of the century, don't like the idea of their daughters screwing around too much, but what they like even less is them getting pregnant prematurely. Society has invented solution for that latter.

jswinghammer 17y ago

We can be more general than that. It wasn't really until the fundamentalist movement that people felt inclined to defend the literal truth of the Bible. Catholics historically (going back to Augustine) have believed that parts of the Bible like the creation account in Genesis are allegorical rather than literal. They wouldn't have gone as far as Jefferson (obviously) but it's sort of a myth that Christians have always felt the need to defend the literal truth of everything in the Bible.

ericb 17y ago

Agreed--don't forget Thomas Paine. The whole "Christian Nation" thing peeves me. http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/thomas_paine/age_of_reason/part1.html#1 http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/thomas_paine/age_...

crystalis 17y ago

I'm not sure that Ben Franklin and Thomas Jefferson count as "people in 1830" in the same way that the Salem Witch Trials might constitute "people in 1692". I'm also of the opinion that you should also account for the other two points, even if to say that you don't mean to refute them by refuting the third.

euroclydon 17y ago
I am not trying to refute the other two points, I just quoted the whole sentence so it would make sense. I would like to think that the 1700s and 1800s represented a golden age in American religiosity, where our political and cultural leaders were deeply spiritual, yet not biblical literalists. Now, it seems that dialog has broken down and we are in fractious camps. I'm sure I am just romanticizing the period though.
- crystalis 17y ago
  Thanks for the reply. I didn't think you were trying to refute the other two points, but I was interested in overt clarity. Whether or not you've romanticized, "Deist" no longer seems to be a position "mainstream" politicians can admit to.

tvon 17y ago

Premarital sex and homosexuality have also been around for thousands of years, but I think it's safe to say what is generally accepted by the mainstream ("of our default educated east coast beliefs") would shock & awe the mainstream of the 1830s.

euroclydon 17y ago
We can sort of account for pre-marital sex, since most fathers, irregardless of the century, don't like the idea of their daughters screwing around too much, but what they like even less is them getting pregnant prematurely. Society has invented solution for that latter.