5 ms·

Visual Studio 2010: A first look for developers

19 points by monkeygrinder 17y ago

smanek 17y ago
That wasn't very interesting (for me at least ...). It spends two pages talking about the new bug tracking and project visualization/UML features (but not comparing them to any of the dozen existing tools in the space). And not even a mention of any of the really cool stuff like F#, M, concurrency/parallelization tools, etc.
- heresy 17y ago
  Agree, more like 1/100th of a look for managers... Any professional C# developer has already seen many more meaty topics by following blogs and twitter. To that list I'd add all the little "quality of life" framework additions, dynamic objects, covariance and contravariance changes, DLR, WPF 4, ASP.NET 4. Hard to get excited about modeling (great, a new tool for the architect to wank off with) and TFS...
  - vyrotek 17y ago
    I agree. But, I must admit the dependency violation stuff looks useful. The ability to enforce patterns and practices such as using Business and Data layers will really help dev teams.
  - dschobel 17y ago
    I'm really exited about the new concurrency libraries, things like Parallel LINQ and the Task Parallel Library. To think that you can write code such as: void Render(Scene scene, Color[,] rgb) { Parallel.For(0, screenHeight, y => { for (int x = 0; x < screenWidth; x++) { rgb[x,y] = TraceRay(new Ray(scene,x,y)); } }); } and var q = src.AsParallel() .Where(x => ExpensiveFilter(x)); foreach(var x in q) { ... } just has to make you grin from ear to ear.
dan_sim 17y ago
I worked with VS in ~2001 until 2006 and I absolutely loved it. There was those things that you could click and all the panels every where. Since 2006, I worked with php & rails in ubuntu. I tried everything from Eclipse to Kokomodo but never found anything that could be as good as VS. I mostly use gEdit. A week ago, I started to work on VS2008 and it finally hit me... I hate Visual Studio for all the same reasons that I loved it before. Writing code in gEdit is a freeing experience. It's just you and your code.
- dkersten 17y ago
  Wait till you figure out vim or emacs! Now thats an experience (good, bad or otherwise...)
- pbz 17y ago
  What's wrong with the fullscreen mode in VS, or disabling all those windows that you seem to hate? Wouldn't you get the same result?
  - bugs 17y ago
    What need does he have for an IDE without all those buttons and knobs?
    - bmj 17y ago
      If you're doing .NET development, VS is still pretty useful without all the knobs and buttons. That said, are there any "out of the box" solutions for using a simple text editor along with some sort of build tool for working with VS projects? I realize I could write my own build scripts, but I was wondering if there are any tools available.
    - altano 17y ago
      I use Visual Studio all day every day as nothing but a text editor (for the most part). It has the best find/replace I've seen in a text editor. jEdit has better functionality, such as PCRE find/replace with good backreference support, but it's too complex for day to day use and the rest of the thing sucks. It's also extremely customizable. When you're doing C++ development on a large project and no IDE is really going to cut it in terms of Intellisense and build tools, find/replace becomes a ton more important. shrug
javery 17y ago
At one time I loved Visual Studio enough to write Visual Studio Hacks for O'reilly, but I have finally had enough. The thing is bloated and continues to get more and more bloated. I have turned off as much as I can and removed all the toolbars, but it's still their in the slowness, lockups, and occasional errors. (and esoteric rules like running in admin mode when using certain projects types, etc) After using TextMate for Ruby/Rails/Erlang projects I see that you don't need a bloated IDE to write code, I think the next step for me is Emacs (and I am looking at using MonoDevelop for future C# work).
- bugs 17y ago
  If you decide to go to emacs from textmate this might help with somewhat similar functionality (regarding completion) http://code.google.com/p/yasnippet/ http://code.google.com/p/yasnippet/
- 9oliYQjP 17y ago
  I generally agree but I think it's really a shame because Microsoft has a great debugger and I love IntelliSense (the damn thing even works with javascript). When working with Windows projects, I generally put up with the bloat because of these two features. If I could get as good a debugger and Intellisense without the bloat, I would. I never use the wizards and all that crap that comes with the IDE.
  - javery 17y ago
    I agree the debugger is good, I have found myself using it less and less though.. especially when I write tests. Intellisense can be useful, I turn it off by default but when I do need to use it I admit it is nice.
- hello_moto 17y ago
  Time to write another book for O'reilly? "Visual Studio 2010 Annoyances".

19 points by monkeygrinder 17y ago

That wasn't very interesting (for me at least ...). It spends two pages talking about the new bug tracking and project visualization/UML features (but not comparing them to any of the dozen existing tools in the space). And not even a mention of any of the really cool stuff like F#, M, concurrency/parallelization tools, etc.

heresy 17y ago
Agree, more like 1/100th of a look for managers... Any professional C# developer has already seen many more meaty topics by following blogs and twitter. To that list I'd add all the little "quality of life" framework additions, dynamic objects, covariance and contravariance changes, DLR, WPF 4, ASP.NET 4. Hard to get excited about modeling (great, a new tool for the architect to wank off with) and TFS...
- vyrotek 17y ago
  I agree. But, I must admit the dependency violation stuff looks useful. The ability to enforce patterns and practices such as using Business and Data layers will really help dev teams.
- dschobel 17y ago
  I'm really exited about the new concurrency libraries, things like Parallel LINQ and the Task Parallel Library. To think that you can write code such as: void Render(Scene scene, Color[,] rgb) { Parallel.For(0, screenHeight, y => { for (int x = 0; x < screenWidth; x++) { rgb[x,y] = TraceRay(new Ray(scene,x,y)); } }); } and var q = src.AsParallel() .Where(x => ExpensiveFilter(x)); foreach(var x in q) { ... } just has to make you grin from ear to ear.

dan_sim 17y ago

I worked with VS in ~2001 until 2006 and I absolutely loved it. There was those things that you could click and all the panels every where. Since 2006, I worked with php & rails in ubuntu. I tried everything from Eclipse to Kokomodo but never found anything that could be as good as VS. I mostly use gEdit. A week ago, I started to work on VS2008 and it finally hit me... I hate Visual Studio for all the same reasons that I loved it before. Writing code in gEdit is a freeing experience. It's just you and your code.

dkersten 17y ago
Wait till you figure out vim or emacs! Now thats an experience (good, bad or otherwise...)
pbz 17y ago
What's wrong with the fullscreen mode in VS, or disabling all those windows that you seem to hate? Wouldn't you get the same result?
- bugs 17y ago
  What need does he have for an IDE without all those buttons and knobs?
  - bmj 17y ago
    If you're doing .NET development, VS is still pretty useful without all the knobs and buttons. That said, are there any "out of the box" solutions for using a simple text editor along with some sort of build tool for working with VS projects? I realize I could write my own build scripts, but I was wondering if there are any tools available.
  - altano 17y ago
    I use Visual Studio all day every day as nothing but a text editor (for the most part). It has the best find/replace I've seen in a text editor. jEdit has better functionality, such as PCRE find/replace with good backreference support, but it's too complex for day to day use and the rest of the thing sucks. It's also extremely customizable. When you're doing C++ development on a large project and no IDE is really going to cut it in terms of Intellisense and build tools, find/replace becomes a ton more important. shrug

javery 17y ago

At one time I loved Visual Studio enough to write Visual Studio Hacks for O'reilly, but I have finally had enough. The thing is bloated and continues to get more and more bloated. I have turned off as much as I can and removed all the toolbars, but it's still their in the slowness, lockups, and occasional errors. (and esoteric rules like running in admin mode when using certain projects types, etc) After using TextMate for Ruby/Rails/Erlang projects I see that you don't need a bloated IDE to write code, I think the next step for me is Emacs (and I am looking at using MonoDevelop for future C# work).

bugs 17y ago
If you decide to go to emacs from textmate this might help with somewhat similar functionality (regarding completion) http://code.google.com/p/yasnippet/ http://code.google.com/p/yasnippet/
9oliYQjP 17y ago
I generally agree but I think it's really a shame because Microsoft has a great debugger and I love IntelliSense (the damn thing even works with javascript). When working with Windows projects, I generally put up with the bloat because of these two features. If I could get as good a debugger and Intellisense without the bloat, I would. I never use the wizards and all that crap that comes with the IDE.
- javery 17y ago
  I agree the debugger is good, I have found myself using it less and less though.. especially when I write tests. Intellisense can be useful, I turn it off by default but when I do need to use it I admit it is nice.
hello_moto 17y ago
Time to write another book for O'reilly? "Visual Studio 2010 Annoyances".