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Are these hard rules for you? Do certain harder (more challenging) challenges make up for lower pay? Are there culture benefits or actual benefits that can make

by borski 11y ago

Are these hard rules for you? Do certain harder (more challenging) challenges make up for lower pay? Are there culture benefits or actual benefits that can make up for lower pay? I ask because I hear things like this all the time, and there seem to be two schools of thought: 1) intangibles matter, 2) tangibles (money) is all that matters. If the latter is true for you (or anyone in a position to be making as much as SV engineers make, excluding those with debts like children's schooling and loans), that makes me really sad. Jumping to the opportunity that will pay more solely because they pay more seems like a shortsighted, materialistic view of life. I'm not saying you see it that way, but there are certainly a not insignificant amount of people who view money as more important than challenges. Thats not wrong, of course, just saddening to me.

testingonprod 11y ago
I think you're misinterpreting what he said. He simply stated "Do not underpay me". No one deserves to be underpaid. It's not an outrageous demand, in fact, he is just demanding baseline respect.
pnathan 11y ago
Don't underpay me; value me at an appropriate valuation. Do challenge me; do provide me with opportunity to grow. The total compensation is a somewhat viscous[1] weighted combination of tangibles and intangibles. Barring economic disaster, there are financial levels I won't go below, in part to maintain future-valuations, as well as to just keep my financial situation in order. [1] Buying a house, for instance, would increase my baseline need for cash. Raising a child would increase my baseline need for managing healthcare and other cash needs. A few years down the road, I will be looking for new challenges, increasing intangibles. :-)
floppydisk 11y ago
I think the logic train the parent is espousing goes like this. Works on challenges (intrinsic) --> gets new skills + generates increasing value for the company Repeat this cycle for many moons and the worker now has a significantly upgraded skillset that has and continues to produce significant value for the corp. All that is asked is that the salary grows with respect to the skill set being utilized and the value being produced for the company. If you end up in a situation where skill sets and value are increasing substantially but compensation is stagnating, you end up in a situation where people will eventually take a look around at the market and realize other people with similar skillsets who provide similar value are getting offers at a substantially higher rate (even assume inflation increase of 3-5% for several years, that adds up). Yes, the work might be challenging and the worker might enjoy the work intrinsically but extrinsically they're now asking whether pursuit of the intrinsic challenge is worth it given the disparity in how they're valued compared to their peers. Pay isn't necessarily about the tangibles but more about how the company values you (scorecard). If your salary gets out of line with market by a substantial amount relative to skills, experience, and value generated, that indicates the company doesn't necessarily value you as much or isn't willing to expend the capital necessary to keep their employees satisfied. The other angle one could take with this argument is that while intangibles are nice, they cannot offset the increase in price of other things like housing, and food. Without pay raises over time, the percentage increases in basic cost of living will eat into the paycheck more and more. Induced pressure from external sources can undermine intrinsic motivation, especially if there are dependents, and increase the importance of the paycheck amount.
- pnathan 11y ago
  > Pay isn't necessarily about the tangibles but more about how the company values you (scorecard). If your salary gets out of line with market by a substantial amount relative to skills, experience, and value generated, that indicates the company doesn't necessarily value you as much or isn't willing to expend the capital necessary to keep their employees satisfied. The other angle one could take with this argument is that while intangibles are nice, they cannot offset the increase in price of other things like housing, and food. Without pay raises over time, the percentage increases in basic cost of living will eat into the paycheck more and more. Induced pressure from external sources can undermine intrinsic motivation, especially if there are dependents, and increase the importance of the paycheck amount. Wow, that said it better than I did.

by borski 11y ago

testingonprod 11y ago

I think you're misinterpreting what he said. He simply stated "Do not underpay me". No one deserves to be underpaid. It's not an outrageous demand, in fact, he is just demanding baseline respect.

pnathan 11y ago

Don't underpay me; value me at an appropriate valuation. Do challenge me; do provide me with opportunity to grow. The total compensation is a somewhat viscous[1] weighted combination of tangibles and intangibles. Barring economic disaster, there are financial levels I won't go below, in part to maintain future-valuations, as well as to just keep my financial situation in order. [1] Buying a house, for instance, would increase my baseline need for cash. Raising a child would increase my baseline need for managing healthcare and other cash needs. A few years down the road, I will be looking for new challenges, increasing intangibles. :-)

floppydisk 11y ago

I think the logic train the parent is espousing goes like this. Works on challenges (intrinsic) --> gets new skills + generates increasing value for the company Repeat this cycle for many moons and the worker now has a significantly upgraded skillset that has and continues to produce significant value for the corp. All that is asked is that the salary grows with respect to the skill set being utilized and the value being produced for the company. If you end up in a situation where skill sets and value are increasing substantially but compensation is stagnating, you end up in a situation where people will eventually take a look around at the market and realize other people with similar skillsets who provide similar value are getting offers at a substantially higher rate (even assume inflation increase of 3-5% for several years, that adds up). Yes, the work might be challenging and the worker might enjoy the work intrinsically but extrinsically they're now asking whether pursuit of the intrinsic challenge is worth it given the disparity in how they're valued compared to their peers. Pay isn't necessarily about the tangibles but more about how the company values you (scorecard). If your salary gets out of line with market by a substantial amount relative to skills, experience, and value generated, that indicates the company doesn't necessarily value you as much or isn't willing to expend the capital necessary to keep their employees satisfied. The other angle one could take with this argument is that while intangibles are nice, they cannot offset the increase in price of other things like housing, and food. Without pay raises over time, the percentage increases in basic cost of living will eat into the paycheck more and more. Induced pressure from external sources can undermine intrinsic motivation, especially if there are dependents, and increase the importance of the paycheck amount.

pnathan 11y ago
> Pay isn't necessarily about the tangibles but more about how the company values you (scorecard). If your salary gets out of line with market by a substantial amount relative to skills, experience, and value generated, that indicates the company doesn't necessarily value you as much or isn't willing to expend the capital necessary to keep their employees satisfied. The other angle one could take with this argument is that while intangibles are nice, they cannot offset the increase in price of other things like housing, and food. Without pay raises over time, the percentage increases in basic cost of living will eat into the paycheck more and more. Induced pressure from external sources can undermine intrinsic motivation, especially if there are dependents, and increase the importance of the paycheck amount. Wow, that said it better than I did.