4 ms·

Someone once told me, "you are far too interested in what you have to say". I think that applies to this write-up. I mean, it was educational and somewhat ente

by bcook 11y ago

Someone once told me, "you are far too interested in what you have to say". I think that applies to this write-up. I mean, it was educational and somewhat entertaining, but the lack of professionalism bothers even me, and that's saying something... Just stick to the technical aspects so that people can fix this as quickly as possible. With all due respect, find a more appropriate soap-box next time. All the ranting simply caught me off guard in a 0-day announcement.

0xdeadbeefbabe 11y ago
> The reason I found this vulnerability is because I made the mistake of following someone's IPsec How-To. Don't trust How-Tos written ten years ago. Don't trust How-Tos written yesterday. Finding the vulnerability leaves him full of confused regret? > Relativism and Utilitarianism are not a valid excuse for doing harm. A person who does harm consistently marks himself or herself as a bad actor. It is our job to name them and reduce harm. The rhetoric doesn't fit reality so much. Like you said stick to the technical facts, so moral people everywhere can "do the right thing".
- Javantea_ 11y ago
  Thank you for your critical comments. I find that when I keep my opinions to myself, people assume that something very different than what I am thinking. I have become more outspoken recently as I have found that people are more willing to listen to and argue things that they disagree with if they trust the person saying it (yourself perhaps?). The audience of this document was the TA3M Seattle group, which is very different from the average tech audience. It was a mix of people who are programmers and people who are not. I tried to put the subject area into both areas. If I was speaking to a tech audience, I would have made the paper more like this: https://www.altsci.com/ipsec/ipsec-tools-sa.html https://www.altsci.com/ipsec/ipsec-tools-sa.html and simply described the problem of software security prediction instead of trying to give people actionable advice and the reason why. So this document attempts to give people 0-day and the motivations behind naming software as unmaintained. I think that most people don't understand how many hours I spent trying to report my findings (~20 hours) when finding the vulnerability took just 3-4 hours. If we want secure software, we need to remove IPsec-tools and similarly unmaintained software from the open source ecosystem so that we don't spend 20 hours trying to contact them every time we find a vulnerability.
  - 0xdeadbeefbabe 11y ago
    Thanks for the reply. I'm just cranky I missed the phreaking era.
redwards510 11y ago
While I agree with you, I am also inclined to think "well, it's his find. He's entitled to say whatever he wants." And in his defense, he follows the inverted pyramid structure of putting the vital information up front. Heck, he even included the line of code that causes the issue. I rarely see that!
- bcook 11y ago
  He definitely explained things well and proved he has a deep understanding of the larger situation. I wish more people were so involved and passionate about their field of work.
Javantea_ 11y ago
Thank you for the comment. I didn't have enough time to finish the paper, so it is more than a little rough around the edges. I have intentionally reduced professionalism in this paper to save time and energy so that I can spend it on more effective pursuits. The reason I tacked on the whole question of "Was IPsec itself poorly designed?" "Why didn't this get reported in 2013?" "What should we do about software vulnerability?" was to get interest from people who generally get nothing from a vulnerability announcement in software they don't use. Thus, the audience of this paper is very different from the traditional audience of people who read vulnerability announcements by the hundreds. Like another user commented, I tried very hard to put the important stuff first so that people like you could stop reading when they became disinterested. You have convinced me to release a version of the report without the soapbox for people like you: https://www.altsci.com/ipsec/ipsec-tools-sa.html https://www.altsci.com/ipsec/ipsec-tools-sa.html
- bcook 11y ago
  Although my post did have legitimate reasons for criticizing, I really just meant to poke a little fun at someone who is obviously more dedicated and passionate than the majority. I meant no harm. You are most probably accomplishing the types of things in the security field that I can only dream about. /me stares off into space, thinking of a day when I might discover a vital 0-day. Congrats on the discovery!

by bcook 11y ago

0xdeadbeefbabe 11y ago

> The reason I found this vulnerability is because I made the mistake of following someone's IPsec How-To. Don't trust How-Tos written ten years ago. Don't trust How-Tos written yesterday. Finding the vulnerability leaves him full of confused regret? > Relativism and Utilitarianism are not a valid excuse for doing harm. A person who does harm consistently marks himself or herself as a bad actor. It is our job to name them and reduce harm. The rhetoric doesn't fit reality so much. Like you said stick to the technical facts, so moral people everywhere can "do the right thing".

Javantea_ 11y ago
Thank you for your critical comments. I find that when I keep my opinions to myself, people assume that something very different than what I am thinking. I have become more outspoken recently as I have found that people are more willing to listen to and argue things that they disagree with if they trust the person saying it (yourself perhaps?). The audience of this document was the TA3M Seattle group, which is very different from the average tech audience. It was a mix of people who are programmers and people who are not. I tried to put the subject area into both areas. If I was speaking to a tech audience, I would have made the paper more like this: https://www.altsci.com/ipsec/ipsec-tools-sa.html https://www.altsci.com/ipsec/ipsec-tools-sa.html and simply described the problem of software security prediction instead of trying to give people actionable advice and the reason why. So this document attempts to give people 0-day and the motivations behind naming software as unmaintained. I think that most people don't understand how many hours I spent trying to report my findings (~20 hours) when finding the vulnerability took just 3-4 hours. If we want secure software, we need to remove IPsec-tools and similarly unmaintained software from the open source ecosystem so that we don't spend 20 hours trying to contact them every time we find a vulnerability.
- 0xdeadbeefbabe 11y ago
  Thanks for the reply. I'm just cranky I missed the phreaking era.

redwards510 11y ago

While I agree with you, I am also inclined to think "well, it's his find. He's entitled to say whatever he wants." And in his defense, he follows the inverted pyramid structure of putting the vital information up front. Heck, he even included the line of code that causes the issue. I rarely see that!

bcook 11y ago
He definitely explained things well and proved he has a deep understanding of the larger situation. I wish more people were so involved and passionate about their field of work.

Javantea_ 11y ago

Thank you for the comment. I didn't have enough time to finish the paper, so it is more than a little rough around the edges. I have intentionally reduced professionalism in this paper to save time and energy so that I can spend it on more effective pursuits. The reason I tacked on the whole question of "Was IPsec itself poorly designed?" "Why didn't this get reported in 2013?" "What should we do about software vulnerability?" was to get interest from people who generally get nothing from a vulnerability announcement in software they don't use. Thus, the audience of this paper is very different from the traditional audience of people who read vulnerability announcements by the hundreds. Like another user commented, I tried very hard to put the important stuff first so that people like you could stop reading when they became disinterested. You have convinced me to release a version of the report without the soapbox for people like you: https://www.altsci.com/ipsec/ipsec-tools-sa.html https://www.altsci.com/ipsec/ipsec-tools-sa.html

bcook 11y ago
Although my post did have legitimate reasons for criticizing, I really just meant to poke a little fun at someone who is obviously more dedicated and passionate than the majority. I meant no harm. You are most probably accomplishing the types of things in the security field that I can only dream about. /me stares off into space, thinking of a day when I might discover a vital 0-day. Congrats on the discovery!