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Am I wrong to assume that "webtorrent" is a "hack" of current technology such as WebRTC to make torrents work over the web, and that it would be much better to

Am I wrong to assume that "webtorrent" is a "hack" of current technology such as WebRTC to make torrents work over the web, and that it would be much better to define a native protocol for torrents/P2P file sharing on the web? Unfortunately now that the W3C has made the MPAA a member of its board, I assume it will oppose any and all such protocols with both hands.

bobajeff 11y ago
Actually, the W3C is working on a TCP and UDP Socket API which should allow for any kind of data transfer protocol over the web. http://www.w3.org/2012/sysapps/tcp-udp-sockets/ http://www.w3.org/2012/sysapps/tcp-udp-sockets/
- shurcooL 11y ago
  Whoa, that is so cool, I can't wait. I know it's possible in theory to have UDP-like sockets via WebRTC data channels today, but it's really hard.
Fiahil 11y ago
The MPAA or the W3C can oppose whatever they want, but we can also choose to ignore them.
- calgoo 11y ago
  Exactly what i was going to say. We have chosen to let the W3C define protocols. We can always take Chromium or FF and add the needed protocol and the W3C has no validity anymore. This is the same for the DNS system. We have chosen to let the system be run like it is. But systems such as OpenDNS and Tor has proven that there are workarounds (with their own set of issues). The question basically boils down to having enough of a userbase for the new system to go mainstream.
comex 11y ago
Not really. WebRTC is explicitly designed to allow arbitrary data to be sent peer-to-peer, with things like encryption, NAT busting, etc. built in; layering file transfer on top of it isn't a hack. It's not compatible with existing protocols, unfortunately, but raw UDP (and TCP) sockets are unlikely to be allowed on the web anytime soon due to security concerns; there are various efforts by browsers to provide APIs for this for use cases like the Chrome Web Store and Firefox's Open Web Apps, where security can be relaxed (e.g. [1] [2]) - and there are in fact torrent addons for both browsers - but on the actual web, you need an additional layer. In lieu of the web being able to speak BitTorrent, it would be nice if native BitTorrent clients started to speak web - that is, support bridging over WebRTC themselves. That is, in fact, what the author of instant.io is attempting, according to [3], with "WebTorrent.app". [1] https://developer.chrome.com/apps/sockets_udp https://developer.chrome.com/apps/sockets_udp [2] https://wiki.mozilla.org/Security/Reviews/TCPSocket https://wiki.mozilla.org/Security/Reviews/TCPSocket [3] https://github.com/feross/webtorrent https://github.com/feross/webtorrent

bobajeff 11y ago

Actually, the W3C is working on a TCP and UDP Socket API which should allow for any kind of data transfer protocol over the web. http://www.w3.org/2012/sysapps/tcp-udp-sockets/ http://www.w3.org/2012/sysapps/tcp-udp-sockets/

shurcooL 11y ago
Whoa, that is so cool, I can't wait. I know it's possible in theory to have UDP-like sockets via WebRTC data channels today, but it's really hard.

Fiahil 11y ago

The MPAA or the W3C can oppose whatever they want, but we can also choose to ignore them.

calgoo 11y ago
Exactly what i was going to say. We have chosen to let the W3C define protocols. We can always take Chromium or FF and add the needed protocol and the W3C has no validity anymore. This is the same for the DNS system. We have chosen to let the system be run like it is. But systems such as OpenDNS and Tor has proven that there are workarounds (with their own set of issues). The question basically boils down to having enough of a userbase for the new system to go mainstream.

comex 11y ago

Not really. WebRTC is explicitly designed to allow arbitrary data to be sent peer-to-peer, with things like encryption, NAT busting, etc. built in; layering file transfer on top of it isn't a hack. It's not compatible with existing protocols, unfortunately, but raw UDP (and TCP) sockets are unlikely to be allowed on the web anytime soon due to security concerns; there are various efforts by browsers to provide APIs for this for use cases like the Chrome Web Store and Firefox's Open Web Apps, where security can be relaxed (e.g. [1] [2]) - and there are in fact torrent addons for both browsers - but on the actual web, you need an additional layer. In lieu of the web being able to speak BitTorrent, it would be nice if native BitTorrent clients started to speak web - that is, support bridging over WebRTC themselves. That is, in fact, what the author of instant.io is attempting, according to [3], with "WebTorrent.app". [1] https://developer.chrome.com/apps/sockets_udp https://developer.chrome.com/apps/sockets_udp [2] https://wiki.mozilla.org/Security/Reviews/TCPSocket https://wiki.mozilla.org/Security/Reviews/TCPSocket [3] https://github.com/feross/webtorrent https://github.com/feross/webtorrent