6 ms·

Instant.io – Streaming file transfer over WebTorrent

157 points by MrJagil 11y ago

MrJagil 11y ago
Sourced form this comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/reply?id=9568939&goto=item%3Fid%3D9568778 https://news.ycombinator.com/reply?id=9568939&goto=item%3Fid...
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
daddykotex 11y ago
Streaming is not supported on Firefox :(
TimJRobinson 11y ago
I tried this a few days ago in latest chrome and it didn't work for me. Is it working for anyone else?
- M4v3R 11y ago
  It does work for me on both latest Chrome and latest Firefox on OS X. On the latter video streaming is not supported though.
maljx 11y ago
I hope I didn't just seed some copyrighted material. Works for me on chrome. :)
higherpurpose 11y ago
Am I wrong to assume that "webtorrent" is a "hack" of current technology such as WebRTC to make torrents work over the web, and that it would be much better to define a native protocol for torrents/P2P file sharing on the web? Unfortunately now that the W3C has made the MPAA a member of its board, I assume it will oppose any and all such protocols with both hands.
- bobajeff 11y ago
  Actually, the W3C is working on a TCP and UDP Socket API which should allow for any kind of data transfer protocol over the web. http://www.w3.org/2012/sysapps/tcp-udp-sockets/ http://www.w3.org/2012/sysapps/tcp-udp-sockets/
  - shurcooL 11y ago
    Whoa, that is so cool, I can't wait. I know it's possible in theory to have UDP-like sockets via WebRTC data channels today, but it's really hard.
- Fiahil 11y ago
  The MPAA or the W3C can oppose whatever they want, but we can also choose to ignore them.
  - calgoo 11y ago
    Exactly what i was going to say. We have chosen to let the W3C define protocols. We can always take Chromium or FF and add the needed protocol and the W3C has no validity anymore. This is the same for the DNS system. We have chosen to let the system be run like it is. But systems such as OpenDNS and Tor has proven that there are workarounds (with their own set of issues). The question basically boils down to having enough of a userbase for the new system to go mainstream.
- comex 11y ago
  Not really. WebRTC is explicitly designed to allow arbitrary data to be sent peer-to-peer, with things like encryption, NAT busting, etc. built in; layering file transfer on top of it isn't a hack. It's not compatible with existing protocols, unfortunately, but raw UDP (and TCP) sockets are unlikely to be allowed on the web anytime soon due to security concerns; there are various efforts by browsers to provide APIs for this for use cases like the Chrome Web Store and Firefox's Open Web Apps, where security can be relaxed (e.g. [1] [2]) - and there are in fact torrent addons for both browsers - but on the actual web, you need an additional layer. In lieu of the web being able to speak BitTorrent, it would be nice if native BitTorrent clients started to speak web - that is, support bridging over WebRTC themselves. That is, in fact, what the author of instant.io is attempting, according to [3], with "WebTorrent.app". [1] https://developer.chrome.com/apps/sockets_udp https://developer.chrome.com/apps/sockets_udp [2] https://wiki.mozilla.org/Security/Reviews/TCPSocket https://wiki.mozilla.org/Security/Reviews/TCPSocket [3] https://github.com/feross/webtorrent https://github.com/feross/webtorrent
uptown 11y ago
Here's a sample rights-free hash link if anyone wants to test the download: https://instant.io/#1cee1045f0ceebcc56bc416da566d5006b58e156 https://instant.io/#1cee1045f0ceebcc56bc416da566d5006b58e156 Photo Source: https://unsplash.com/nelly https://unsplash.com/nelly
sktrdie 11y ago
Webtorrent is such a cool project. Kudos to Feross for the hard work.
Beldur 11y ago
Does it mean that whenever I click on a link I must be afraid that my computer will start to participate in a filesharing network? What if a website uses the technology to spread copyrighted material in the background without me knowing about it? Maybe the website had a simple XSS hole that allowed an attacker to do it? So later I will get a fine for spreading copyrighted material and I don't even know where it came from?
- untog 11y ago
  Yeah, this is an interesting thought exercise. You could even, ad banner style, put an iframe on all sorts of pages letting a computer serve as part of a torrenting network. (Provided the page stayed open, of course)
- yAnonymous 11y ago
  Exactly my thoughts. JS torrent clients are dangerous. There was a case in Germany recently where thousands of internet users got cease-and-desist letters and were asked to pay a fine based on an ad-injection. The people behind it made hundreds of thousands and ran off with the money. On the other hand: If malicious driveby torrenting happens regularly, it will be harder to fine people for it, because it gives them a good excuse.
  - realusername 11y ago
    The case you are talking about clearly looks like a scam, how is that even legal to ask for a ransom in exchange of not disclosing you to the justice ?
    - ikeboy 11y ago
      There are companies that do this on scale, with permission from copyright holders.
    - yAnonymous 11y ago
      It wasn't legal, but that didn't prevent them from running off with the money. Nobody wants to get involved in a lawsuit over porn movie piracy, so many people just pay the fine. And when you pay, it's almost impossible to get the money back, because you basically admit your guilt, even when the claim was not legit. There's more to this case, you can read about it here: https://torrentfreak.com/viewing-pirated-streams-is-not-illegal-german-govt-says-140109/ https://torrentfreak.com/viewing-pirated-streams-is-not-ille... tl;dr: They got users' IPs through ads and misled the courts into thinking the users committed a crime by watching the videos. Courts ordered the ISPs to give out the users' info, the law firm CD'd the users and ran off when shit hit the fan. The same thing can happen with JS torrenting and it's even easier to do.
towelguy 11y ago
So if I close my browser I have to start downloading all over? The reason I like torrents over regular downloads is that I can pause and resume at any point. In the browser it's not always reliable.
- comex 11y ago
  In theory, there are plenty of ways for browsers to store data locally. I can't tell if this site does that, because I can't seem to get it to work.
slackstation 11y ago
Is it just me or are these pages not doing anything? I'm looking in the App Cache, Session Storage and I'm not seeing anything. There doesn't seem to be any activity. The page just sits there.
- feross 11y ago
  WebRTC doesn't have a tab in the web inspector yet. :) Try chrome://webrtc-internals/
BrandiATMuhkuh 11y ago
I believe Wikipedia should use this technology to store images and movies on the client side. That would save them a lot of data storage money.
toufka 11y ago
Poor little snitch - 'Firefox is trying to connect to _.__.__.__ over port ____.' Nightmare for connection monitoring - just like bittorrent.

157 points by MrJagil 11y ago

Sourced form this comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/reply?id=9568939&goto=item%3Fid%3D9568778 https://news.ycombinator.com/reply?id=9568939&goto=item%3Fid...

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

daddykotex 11y ago

Streaming is not supported on Firefox :(

TimJRobinson 11y ago

I tried this a few days ago in latest chrome and it didn't work for me. Is it working for anyone else?

M4v3R 11y ago
It does work for me on both latest Chrome and latest Firefox on OS X. On the latter video streaming is not supported though.

maljx 11y ago

I hope I didn't just seed some copyrighted material. Works for me on chrome. :)

higherpurpose 11y ago

Am I wrong to assume that "webtorrent" is a "hack" of current technology such as WebRTC to make torrents work over the web, and that it would be much better to define a native protocol for torrents/P2P file sharing on the web? Unfortunately now that the W3C has made the MPAA a member of its board, I assume it will oppose any and all such protocols with both hands.

bobajeff 11y ago
Actually, the W3C is working on a TCP and UDP Socket API which should allow for any kind of data transfer protocol over the web. http://www.w3.org/2012/sysapps/tcp-udp-sockets/ http://www.w3.org/2012/sysapps/tcp-udp-sockets/
- shurcooL 11y ago
  Whoa, that is so cool, I can't wait. I know it's possible in theory to have UDP-like sockets via WebRTC data channels today, but it's really hard.
Fiahil 11y ago
The MPAA or the W3C can oppose whatever they want, but we can also choose to ignore them.
- calgoo 11y ago
  Exactly what i was going to say. We have chosen to let the W3C define protocols. We can always take Chromium or FF and add the needed protocol and the W3C has no validity anymore. This is the same for the DNS system. We have chosen to let the system be run like it is. But systems such as OpenDNS and Tor has proven that there are workarounds (with their own set of issues). The question basically boils down to having enough of a userbase for the new system to go mainstream.
comex 11y ago
Not really. WebRTC is explicitly designed to allow arbitrary data to be sent peer-to-peer, with things like encryption, NAT busting, etc. built in; layering file transfer on top of it isn't a hack. It's not compatible with existing protocols, unfortunately, but raw UDP (and TCP) sockets are unlikely to be allowed on the web anytime soon due to security concerns; there are various efforts by browsers to provide APIs for this for use cases like the Chrome Web Store and Firefox's Open Web Apps, where security can be relaxed (e.g. [1] [2]) - and there are in fact torrent addons for both browsers - but on the actual web, you need an additional layer. In lieu of the web being able to speak BitTorrent, it would be nice if native BitTorrent clients started to speak web - that is, support bridging over WebRTC themselves. That is, in fact, what the author of instant.io is attempting, according to [3], with "WebTorrent.app". [1] https://developer.chrome.com/apps/sockets_udp https://developer.chrome.com/apps/sockets_udp [2] https://wiki.mozilla.org/Security/Reviews/TCPSocket https://wiki.mozilla.org/Security/Reviews/TCPSocket [3] https://github.com/feross/webtorrent https://github.com/feross/webtorrent

uptown 11y ago

Here's a sample rights-free hash link if anyone wants to test the download: https://instant.io/#1cee1045f0ceebcc56bc416da566d5006b58e156 https://instant.io/#1cee1045f0ceebcc56bc416da566d5006b58e156 Photo Source: https://unsplash.com/nelly https://unsplash.com/nelly

sktrdie 11y ago

Webtorrent is such a cool project. Kudos to Feross for the hard work.

Beldur 11y ago

Does it mean that whenever I click on a link I must be afraid that my computer will start to participate in a filesharing network? What if a website uses the technology to spread copyrighted material in the background without me knowing about it? Maybe the website had a simple XSS hole that allowed an attacker to do it? So later I will get a fine for spreading copyrighted material and I don't even know where it came from?

untog 11y ago
Yeah, this is an interesting thought exercise. You could even, ad banner style, put an iframe on all sorts of pages letting a computer serve as part of a torrenting network. (Provided the page stayed open, of course)
yAnonymous 11y ago
Exactly my thoughts. JS torrent clients are dangerous. There was a case in Germany recently where thousands of internet users got cease-and-desist letters and were asked to pay a fine based on an ad-injection. The people behind it made hundreds of thousands and ran off with the money. On the other hand: If malicious driveby torrenting happens regularly, it will be harder to fine people for it, because it gives them a good excuse.
- realusername 11y ago
  The case you are talking about clearly looks like a scam, how is that even legal to ask for a ransom in exchange of not disclosing you to the justice ?
  - ikeboy 11y ago
    There are companies that do this on scale, with permission from copyright holders.
  - yAnonymous 11y ago
    It wasn't legal, but that didn't prevent them from running off with the money. Nobody wants to get involved in a lawsuit over porn movie piracy, so many people just pay the fine. And when you pay, it's almost impossible to get the money back, because you basically admit your guilt, even when the claim was not legit. There's more to this case, you can read about it here: https://torrentfreak.com/viewing-pirated-streams-is-not-illegal-german-govt-says-140109/ https://torrentfreak.com/viewing-pirated-streams-is-not-ille... tl;dr: They got users' IPs through ads and misled the courts into thinking the users committed a crime by watching the videos. Courts ordered the ISPs to give out the users' info, the law firm CD'd the users and ran off when shit hit the fan. The same thing can happen with JS torrenting and it's even easier to do.

towelguy 11y ago

So if I close my browser I have to start downloading all over? The reason I like torrents over regular downloads is that I can pause and resume at any point. In the browser it's not always reliable.

comex 11y ago
In theory, there are plenty of ways for browsers to store data locally. I can't tell if this site does that, because I can't seem to get it to work.

slackstation 11y ago

Is it just me or are these pages not doing anything? I'm looking in the App Cache, Session Storage and I'm not seeing anything. There doesn't seem to be any activity. The page just sits there.

feross 11y ago
WebRTC doesn't have a tab in the web inspector yet. :) Try chrome://webrtc-internals/

BrandiATMuhkuh 11y ago

I believe Wikipedia should use this technology to store images and movies on the client side. That would save them a lot of data storage money.

toufka 11y ago

Poor little snitch - 'Firefox is trying to connect to _.__.__.__ over port ____.' Nightmare for connection monitoring - just like bittorrent.