My point on historical systems is not that they are right, but that something better has never been implemented. Probably means it isn't an easy problem, and t

My point on historical systems is not that they are right, but that something better has never been implemented. Probably means it isn't an easy problem, and that the solution needs to be defined properly - rather than proclaimed "there must be a better way". I'm not trying to straw man or anything, i'm genuinely interested. Living without making any contribution to taxes is a net drain. That's not nonsense, at all. Whether you want to enable that choice for anyone is most definitely a choice/view. The NHS, housing, police state, roads, etc all this shit costs labour and money. The fact that pensioners are the largest benefit drain and are predicted to increase significantly as a population is of note. Lazy isn't really the point. The argument isn't even about being lazy, you can be lazy as long as you aren't funding it using "other peoples" labour. That's what you'll find a decent proportion of the population are against. So is the plan to nationalise ownership of all housing to allow free accommodation for all? Or simply to cap rents on a national/regional/other level? Distribution of capital and inheritance is a root cause of the problem at the moment in terms of housing prices. Those who can afford the deposit and those who cannot. Not easily solved. Similarly lending practices strongly favour buy to let. I'm torn on the withholding thing. I see both sides (and I've spent plenty of time on the dole, and been sanctioned on more than one occasion). I met all sorts of people at workshops and training sessions. I saw a fundamentally broken welfare system, I saw a lot of people paid to push paper, I saw people who thought they were exploiting it, and I saw some people who were both down on their luck and genuinely fascinating. I'm not actually against a citizens wage (whatever it's called) - I think it'd be really interesting. I'm just not sure how viable it is long term. I'd happily vote for greens again if they had a shot at implementing it. We doubtless have very different value systems / views though.