12 ms·

Everything right? Except of course monitize it. Giving stuff away is pretty easy to do. Making a business out of it is much harder.

by Narkov 11y ago

k-mcgrady 11y ago
>> Everything right? Except of course monitize it. And funding/creating it. Anyone can take something they don't own and give it away for free. Investing in its creation and ensuring that investment is successful is much more difficult and limits your options for distribution.
rkangel 11y ago
Given the technical restrictions on sharing illegal content, due to copyright laws shutdown of websites etc., sharing illegal content isn't that easy to do. That someone has managed to do it in as user friendly a manner as they have, putting everything in the industry to shame (apart from Netflix) is in an indication of the failings of the industry. Netflix is a great product that falls down only in terms of content. If Netflix had more TV shows as box sets, and new episodes of currently being broadcast TV seasons, I would happily pay 10 times as much as I do (no exaggeration) and never use anything else legal or otherwise. The resistance that the established industry has to making deals to enable that sort of service is the reason that Popcorn Time can beat them.
- eli 11y ago
  Hollywood isn't in the moving bits around industry. That was never the hard part. It's like saying you improved Photoshop by making a cracked version that's easy to download.... Users might be happy, but imagine you work at Adobe.
  - 1stop 11y ago
    That's not really true. The big studios are distributors of the content. They traditionally sold to Cinemas, and had DVDs made, etc. The fact they missed the boat on digital distribution is completely their fault...
    - k-mcgrady 11y ago
      They're also investors in the creation of the content.
    - eli 11y ago
      Sure and Adobe is distributor of Photoshop, but I wouldn't really say they're in the "downloading install files" business.
- nonick 11y ago
  Netflix is great, I guess. I would know for sure if they were available in my country. Same as Pandora, Spotify etc.
  - Bladegunner 11y ago
    Try out a vpn, like hola. (note: only have hola active while you are using it, there are some security risks using it.)
    - Flimm 11y ago
      You still need a debit/credit card for that country.
      - kalms 11y ago
        No, actually you don't. When I visit the States, or when using a VPN, I get the US version just fine, at least with Netflix.
        StavrosK 11y ago
        How do you pay for it?
    - hobarrera 11y ago
      So break one law instead of another. There's no advantage to a VPN versus TPB, and you're still ilegally downloading the show (since the licence for the mentioned websites state that it cannot be exported, etc).
- flavor8 11y ago
  > Netflix is a great product that falls down only in terms of content ...and app UI. Have you ever tried to drive your chromecast with the netflix app? It's buggy as hell, doesn't display comments, doesn't display related content, and has a horrible search experience. I half believe that it's bad deliberately as a way to cover up holes in their content.
thomasfl 11y ago
At least they have shown that it's possible to distribute movies on a massive scale with a minimum of infrastructure. When distribution cost is close to free, it could open up a lot of possibilities that could potentially benefit customers and film makers.
smhg 11y ago
Do you mean monetization and making a business are the main goals? I thought they were means? Means to accomplish progress in human society.
- bsaul 11y ago
  Is that what your boss tells you whenever you ask for a raise ? edit : that's not just a snarky comment. i always find it amusing whenever people advocate giving other's people's work away for free.
  - rorykoehler 11y ago
    Do you say the same about Spotify?
  - tljr 11y ago
    Your time is worth exactly NOTHING to me. If all you're offering is a duplicated proof of your sunk time (software, movies, the list goes on), you're going to struggle for a share of the resource I use to primarily to get food for my kids. That's not just a snarky comment. I always find it amusing whenever people try to sell things with no real actual value and them complain it's hard.
  - cmiles74 11y ago
    I don't think anyone is advocating giving work away for free. Netflix has a large customer base and continues to grow it, but their library falls short for many people. It's also not available everywhere, and some work is only available in certain regions.
  - smhg 11y ago
    My comment was not meant to participate in the free vs paid discussion. That's indeed a whole other thing. Your question itself, snarky or not, makes me sad. Doesn't that imply you spend a large part of your day doing something you don't like just for the sake of making money?
    - bsaul 11y ago
viraptor 11y ago
Coinado will require payment after beta period. We'll see how it goes...
- eli 11y ago
  The question isn't whether it's possible to charge anything. They're not compensating the content creators. If I steal cars and resell them for a fraction of their typical price, does that prove the car industry is broken?
  - viraptor 11y ago
    I think you want to argue with an answer to a different question. Gp asked about monetising - that's getting people to pay the service provider. What happens to the money later is a completely different issue of artist compensation, contracts, etc I'm not claiming it's legal or a valid business, only saying that the service will not be free soon. If they get paid afterwards, than it's probably something distributors should look at in the future.
  - xnzakg 11y ago
    Except when you steal a car, the owner doesn't have it anymore. If you would manage to clone a car and then resell it for a fraction of its price, it would mean the car industry is broken.
    - dash2 11y ago
      If the price of a movie were composed out of the cost of the materials for the DVD, this argument would be correct. But the price is needed to compensate the people who made the movie. (I don't say that current movie pricing is equitable.) Content creators deserve to be paid for their work. Taking it without payment and without their agreement is stealing.
      - _lce0 11y ago
        > Content creators deserve to be paid for their work. Taking it without payment and without their agreement is stealing. I wonder how much Hollywood share its revenue with the content creators, not actors but more like writers, filmmakers, and all those that _create_. are there numbers somewhere? EDIT: s/studios/filmmakers -- thanks icebraining!
unicornporn 11y ago
All achievements can't be judged by their ability to make money. /The Swedish socialist
- eli 11y ago
  Is it not reasonable to judge a course of action by asking, What would it look like if everyone tried to act like me? In this case I think the Hollywood blockbuster goes away.
tljr 11y ago
So because it's not a business it's not 'right'?
Sir_Substance 11y ago
You've fallen into the classic trap: No one is obliged to give you money. Finding a business model that works is your problem, not your customers. Forced lock-in is a model, but it's a violent one that makes people want to leave, and it's entirely predicated on there never being an escape hatch for your trapped customers. There is now an escape hatch for content customers. They're no longer beholden to the choice of cinema or TV for their content, and haven't been for years. Whining about how much more money you made in the old days when people couldn't escape the cage really doesn't enamor you to people. It's on hollywood to find a new business model that works in a post-cage world. If they can't, they'll go bankrupt and vanish, and I won't care. There's a lot, and I mean a lot, of good content out there that's either low investment (think Primer) or can pay for itself in box office and/or merchandising alone (marvel, star wars, lord of the rings). If your content creation is predicated on selling DVD's or subscriptions, and your DVD/subscription mechanism is so bad people are willingly buying VPN's to other countries to avoid using it (netflix in aus), that's not your customers problem in any fashion, it's yours.
- dmarg 11y ago
  >>No one is obliged to give you money. Finding a business model that works is your problem, not your customers.<< This struck a chord with me and is exactly the reason why Hollywood and the Music Industry are flailing. They are trying to continue their business model that worked for so long into this new day and age. Adapt or die essentially.
  - michaelbuddy 11y ago
    You mean you don't like watching all those unskippable previews and commercials on your blu-ray, or "downloading" the included digital drm file off your disney DVD so you can take your copy of cinderella with you anywhere, anytime.* Or what about renting that great movie and having a 24 hour window to watch it. *Maximum of 2 downloads. Approved devices only, Void where prohibited
  - untog 11y ago
    But what is that new model, exactly? If "paying money in return for receiving goods" doesn't work, how will they make these multi-million dollar cultural phenomenons? I agree that the current system is broken, but saying you'll pirate until the studios work out it feels like an irresponsible point of view, to me.
throwawaykf05 11y ago
> Except of course monitize it. And, you know, create it. Giving stuff away is pretty easy to do, especially if it's somebody else's stuff :-)
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
tomjen3 11y ago
People pay for netflix, which has a worse catalog. As a minimum people would pay for this instead of netflix (and I would certainly be willing to pay more).

Everything right? Except of course monitize it. Giving stuff away is pretty easy to do. Making a business out of it is much harder.

by Narkov 11y ago

Everything right? Except of course monitize it. Giving stuff away is pretty easy to do. Making a business out of it is much harder.

k-mcgrady 11y ago

>> Everything right? Except of course monitize it. And funding/creating it. Anyone can take something they don't own and give it away for free. Investing in its creation and ensuring that investment is successful is much more difficult and limits your options for distribution.

rkangel 11y ago

Given the technical restrictions on sharing illegal content, due to copyright laws shutdown of websites etc., sharing illegal content isn't that easy to do. That someone has managed to do it in as user friendly a manner as they have, putting everything in the industry to shame (apart from Netflix) is in an indication of the failings of the industry. Netflix is a great product that falls down only in terms of content. If Netflix had more TV shows as box sets, and new episodes of currently being broadcast TV seasons, I would happily pay 10 times as much as I do (no exaggeration) and never use anything else legal or otherwise. The resistance that the established industry has to making deals to enable that sort of service is the reason that Popcorn Time can beat them.

eli 11y ago
Hollywood isn't in the moving bits around industry. That was never the hard part. It's like saying you improved Photoshop by making a cracked version that's easy to download.... Users might be happy, but imagine you work at Adobe.
- 1stop 11y ago
  That's not really true. The big studios are distributors of the content. They traditionally sold to Cinemas, and had DVDs made, etc. The fact they missed the boat on digital distribution is completely their fault...
  - k-mcgrady 11y ago
    They're also investors in the creation of the content.
  - eli 11y ago
    Sure and Adobe is distributor of Photoshop, but I wouldn't really say they're in the "downloading install files" business.
nonick 11y ago
Netflix is great, I guess. I would know for sure if they were available in my country. Same as Pandora, Spotify etc.
- Bladegunner 11y ago
  Try out a vpn, like hola. (note: only have hola active while you are using it, there are some security risks using it.)
  - Flimm 11y ago
    You still need a debit/credit card for that country.
    - kalms 11y ago
      No, actually you don't. When I visit the States, or when using a VPN, I get the US version just fine, at least with Netflix.
      - StavrosK 11y ago
        How do you pay for it?
  - hobarrera 11y ago
    So break one law instead of another. There's no advantage to a VPN versus TPB, and you're still ilegally downloading the show (since the licence for the mentioned websites state that it cannot be exported, etc).
flavor8 11y ago
> Netflix is a great product that falls down only in terms of content ...and app UI. Have you ever tried to drive your chromecast with the netflix app? It's buggy as hell, doesn't display comments, doesn't display related content, and has a horrible search experience. I half believe that it's bad deliberately as a way to cover up holes in their content.

thomasfl 11y ago

At least they have shown that it's possible to distribute movies on a massive scale with a minimum of infrastructure. When distribution cost is close to free, it could open up a lot of possibilities that could potentially benefit customers and film makers.

smhg 11y ago

Do you mean monetization and making a business are the main goals? I thought they were means? Means to accomplish progress in human society.

bsaul 11y ago
Is that what your boss tells you whenever you ask for a raise ? edit : that's not just a snarky comment. i always find it amusing whenever people advocate giving other's people's work away for free.
- rorykoehler 11y ago
  Do you say the same about Spotify?
- tljr 11y ago
  Your time is worth exactly NOTHING to me. If all you're offering is a duplicated proof of your sunk time (software, movies, the list goes on), you're going to struggle for a share of the resource I use to primarily to get food for my kids. That's not just a snarky comment. I always find it amusing whenever people try to sell things with no real actual value and them complain it's hard.
- cmiles74 11y ago
  I don't think anyone is advocating giving work away for free. Netflix has a large customer base and continues to grow it, but their library falls short for many people. It's also not available everywhere, and some work is only available in certain regions.
- smhg 11y ago
  My comment was not meant to participate in the free vs paid discussion. That's indeed a whole other thing. Your question itself, snarky or not, makes me sad. Doesn't that imply you spend a large part of your day doing something you don't like just for the sake of making money?
  - bsaul 11y ago

viraptor 11y ago

Coinado will require payment after beta period. We'll see how it goes...

eli 11y ago
The question isn't whether it's possible to charge anything. They're not compensating the content creators. If I steal cars and resell them for a fraction of their typical price, does that prove the car industry is broken?
- viraptor 11y ago
  I think you want to argue with an answer to a different question. Gp asked about monetising - that's getting people to pay the service provider. What happens to the money later is a completely different issue of artist compensation, contracts, etc I'm not claiming it's legal or a valid business, only saying that the service will not be free soon. If they get paid afterwards, than it's probably something distributors should look at in the future.
- xnzakg 11y ago
  Except when you steal a car, the owner doesn't have it anymore. If you would manage to clone a car and then resell it for a fraction of its price, it would mean the car industry is broken.
  - dash2 11y ago
    If the price of a movie were composed out of the cost of the materials for the DVD, this argument would be correct. But the price is needed to compensate the people who made the movie. (I don't say that current movie pricing is equitable.) Content creators deserve to be paid for their work. Taking it without payment and without their agreement is stealing.
    - _lce0 11y ago
      > Content creators deserve to be paid for their work. Taking it without payment and without their agreement is stealing. I wonder how much Hollywood share its revenue with the content creators, not actors but more like writers, filmmakers, and all those that _create_. are there numbers somewhere? EDIT: s/studios/filmmakers -- thanks icebraining!

unicornporn 11y ago

All achievements can't be judged by their ability to make money. /The Swedish socialist

eli 11y ago
Is it not reasonable to judge a course of action by asking, What would it look like if everyone tried to act like me? In this case I think the Hollywood blockbuster goes away.

tljr 11y ago

So because it's not a business it's not 'right'?

Sir_Substance 11y ago

You've fallen into the classic trap: No one is obliged to give you money. Finding a business model that works is your problem, not your customers. Forced lock-in is a model, but it's a violent one that makes people want to leave, and it's entirely predicated on there never being an escape hatch for your trapped customers. There is now an escape hatch for content customers. They're no longer beholden to the choice of cinema or TV for their content, and haven't been for years. Whining about how much more money you made in the old days when people couldn't escape the cage really doesn't enamor you to people. It's on hollywood to find a new business model that works in a post-cage world. If they can't, they'll go bankrupt and vanish, and I won't care. There's a lot, and I mean a lot, of good content out there that's either low investment (think Primer) or can pay for itself in box office and/or merchandising alone (marvel, star wars, lord of the rings). If your content creation is predicated on selling DVD's or subscriptions, and your DVD/subscription mechanism is so bad people are willingly buying VPN's to other countries to avoid using it (netflix in aus), that's not your customers problem in any fashion, it's yours.

dmarg 11y ago
>>No one is obliged to give you money. Finding a business model that works is your problem, not your customers.<< This struck a chord with me and is exactly the reason why Hollywood and the Music Industry are flailing. They are trying to continue their business model that worked for so long into this new day and age. Adapt or die essentially.
- michaelbuddy 11y ago
  You mean you don't like watching all those unskippable previews and commercials on your blu-ray, or "downloading" the included digital drm file off your disney DVD so you can take your copy of cinderella with you anywhere, anytime.* Or what about renting that great movie and having a 24 hour window to watch it. *Maximum of 2 downloads. Approved devices only, Void where prohibited
- untog 11y ago
  But what is that new model, exactly? If "paying money in return for receiving goods" doesn't work, how will they make these multi-million dollar cultural phenomenons? I agree that the current system is broken, but saying you'll pirate until the studios work out it feels like an irresponsible point of view, to me.

throwawaykf05 11y ago

> Except of course monitize it. And, you know, create it. Giving stuff away is pretty easy to do, especially if it's somebody else's stuff :-)

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

tomjen3 11y ago

People pay for netflix, which has a worse catalog. As a minimum people would pay for this instead of netflix (and I would certainly be willing to pay more).