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I would seriously recommend deleting this post. It is probably both the dumbest and most offensive thing I have ever read on this forum. If anyone else posted

by rms 17y ago

I would seriously recommend deleting this post. It is probably both the dumbest and most offensive thing I have ever read on this forum. If anyone else posted this, their account would be killed and I don't think you would be an exception. It is something "you can't say" and would be enough to have you forcefully committed if someone thought you were a danger to yourself or others. To address your original point: whether someone intends to go through with it or not, it should be appropriately interpreted as a cry of help. Who are we to ignore a cry for help?

vaksel 17y ago
well let's see, the post is about suicide, and I'm discussing motivations behind it. So the way I read your comment, is that you are advocating for people to kill themselves quietly. Why would my account be killed(interesting choice of words btw, considering the thread). Can't there be a civil discussion about suicide? Why is that subject so taboo? Thinking like that is exactly why people take their lives without talking to anyone. Ok so it's a cry for help...what exactly did you do to address his cry for help? Did you email the guy? Did you call him? Did you track down people close to him and had them talk to him? Or did you just upvote the submission, thinking you did your civic duty?...Did you even do that? What EXACTLY did you do to "help"? Answer me that.
- KC8ZKF 17y ago
  "at least put your death to good use. Go buy some guns, go grab some ammo, then go on a killing spree" This is what bothers me about your post. It's not the taboo of suicide, or your doubts that threats of suicide should be taken seriously. These are horrible sentiments, and I hope you don't mean a word of them.
  - sailormoon 17y ago
    Maybe he doesn't mean a word of them. But history is full, absolutely jam-packed, with examples of people seeking violent, terminal retribution for the injustices they perceive to have ruined their lives. Heard of a movie called Braveheart? Heard of a little comic book called V for Vendetta? Both examples of an aggrieved party fighting willingly to the death in an act of, essentially, revenge. This is a real human emotion and downvoting will not just make it go away. How about some rational counterarguments, such as the injustice of taking innocent people with you, or the long-term futility of such an approach. Pretty disappointing to see this kind of morally outraged pile-on here.
    - KC8ZKF 17y ago
      There is no rational argument to counter here. I was commenting on his sense that he was being downvoted because of a taboo around dismissing threats of suicide. He advocates violence with an argument of "Why not?", and your defense of it is that violent retribution is common. These are not rational arguments. And I have no idea where you got the impression that I thought downvoting would make the problem go away. For the record, I don't.
- raptorex 17y ago
  vaksel, you already admitted you don't understand why somebody would want to commit suicide. if you have to get all uppity about free speech and civil liberties on an internet forum right now (as if you are really saying anything novel), at least you could respect that you don't seem to have any knowledge of the topic. your post is accusatory and pointless at best.
- logjam 17y ago
  American Foundation for Suicide Prevention: "Suicide can be prevented. While some suicides occur without any outward warning, most people who are suicidal do give warnings." http://www.afsp.org/index.cfm?page_id=0519ec1a-d73a-8d90-7d2e9e2456182d66 http://www.afsp.org/index.cfm?page_id=0519ec1a-d73a-8d90-7d2... But let's move on summarize the rest of your drivel for those who can no longer read your grayed out words. You're not interested in any well established research that shows people who attempt and commit suicide commonly talk about it or warn ahead of time. You're only relying on your "perspective"....that bad enough personal problems should be addressed by denial, isolation, theft, and mass murder. Did we miss anything? I agree with rms. Yours is probably the dumbest and most offensive post I've ever read on HN.
- rufugee 17y ago
  You're advocating taking innocent lives as a way to live life to its fullest? Kill others because you just couldn't take the pressure anymore? The anger your post evoked in me has forced me to rewrite this sentence five times...this is the most peaceful response I can muster: your "philosophy" is psychopathic. I hope you grow up one day and realize the measure of your life is the number of lives you positively change...not the number you take with you on the way out.
  - vaksel 17y ago
    who said anything about innocent lives, I'm talking about those people who you'd hold responsible for driving you to suicide. Sure it's psychotic, but we aren't talking about a normal mentally balanced person. We are talking about someone who has already been driven so far, that they are considering taking their own life to make the pain stop.
- niels_olson 17y ago
  vaksel, your statements about getting a bunch of guns, going out in a blaze of glory, etc, clearly indicate you are full of hope and would be justifiably pissed off if external forces pushed you toward suicide. This is in line with your desire to be remembered, your legacy, you want to have consequences. I think a number of the negative responses toward you are from folks who have known death and have learned to cherish life the more thereby. They are deeply concerned by what may appear to be cavalier comments about killing. Justifiably so. You're in a forum for hackers. Presumably you find the values of hackers to be admirable. And you seem to have put a lot of effort into pushing back. If I had to guess, you want someone to tell you why you're wrong, but not just tell you, you want them to prove it. Well, instead, be a good hacker, and figure it out yourself. Go read up on suicide. Why people commit suicide. Here's a good place to start: http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=aaron+beck+hopelessness http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=aaron+beck+hopelessness
sailormoon 17y ago
I disagree with vaksel but this is too much. Account deletion? Forcibly committed? He has a right to his opinion and should have the right to say it. It's been forcefully condemned by the community, which is an adequate repudiation. Funny how you identified his post as a "thing you can't say". I seem to remember reading an essay about that very topic somewhere.

by rms 17y ago

vaksel 17y ago

well let's see, the post is about suicide, and I'm discussing motivations behind it. So the way I read your comment, is that you are advocating for people to kill themselves quietly. Why would my account be killed(interesting choice of words btw, considering the thread). Can't there be a civil discussion about suicide? Why is that subject so taboo? Thinking like that is exactly why people take their lives without talking to anyone. Ok so it's a cry for help...what exactly did you do to address his cry for help? Did you email the guy? Did you call him? Did you track down people close to him and had them talk to him? Or did you just upvote the submission, thinking you did your civic duty?...Did you even do that? What EXACTLY did you do to "help"? Answer me that.

KC8ZKF 17y ago
"at least put your death to good use. Go buy some guns, go grab some ammo, then go on a killing spree" This is what bothers me about your post. It's not the taboo of suicide, or your doubts that threats of suicide should be taken seriously. These are horrible sentiments, and I hope you don't mean a word of them.
- sailormoon 17y ago
  Maybe he doesn't mean a word of them. But history is full, absolutely jam-packed, with examples of people seeking violent, terminal retribution for the injustices they perceive to have ruined their lives. Heard of a movie called Braveheart? Heard of a little comic book called V for Vendetta? Both examples of an aggrieved party fighting willingly to the death in an act of, essentially, revenge. This is a real human emotion and downvoting will not just make it go away. How about some rational counterarguments, such as the injustice of taking innocent people with you, or the long-term futility of such an approach. Pretty disappointing to see this kind of morally outraged pile-on here.
  - KC8ZKF 17y ago
    There is no rational argument to counter here. I was commenting on his sense that he was being downvoted because of a taboo around dismissing threats of suicide. He advocates violence with an argument of "Why not?", and your defense of it is that violent retribution is common. These are not rational arguments. And I have no idea where you got the impression that I thought downvoting would make the problem go away. For the record, I don't.
raptorex 17y ago
vaksel, you already admitted you don't understand why somebody would want to commit suicide. if you have to get all uppity about free speech and civil liberties on an internet forum right now (as if you are really saying anything novel), at least you could respect that you don't seem to have any knowledge of the topic. your post is accusatory and pointless at best.
logjam 17y ago
American Foundation for Suicide Prevention: "Suicide can be prevented. While some suicides occur without any outward warning, most people who are suicidal do give warnings." http://www.afsp.org/index.cfm?page_id=0519ec1a-d73a-8d90-7d2e9e2456182d66 http://www.afsp.org/index.cfm?page_id=0519ec1a-d73a-8d90-7d2... But let's move on summarize the rest of your drivel for those who can no longer read your grayed out words. You're not interested in any well established research that shows people who attempt and commit suicide commonly talk about it or warn ahead of time. You're only relying on your "perspective"....that bad enough personal problems should be addressed by denial, isolation, theft, and mass murder. Did we miss anything? I agree with rms. Yours is probably the dumbest and most offensive post I've ever read on HN.
rufugee 17y ago
You're advocating taking innocent lives as a way to live life to its fullest? Kill others because you just couldn't take the pressure anymore? The anger your post evoked in me has forced me to rewrite this sentence five times...this is the most peaceful response I can muster: your "philosophy" is psychopathic. I hope you grow up one day and realize the measure of your life is the number of lives you positively change...not the number you take with you on the way out.
- vaksel 17y ago
  who said anything about innocent lives, I'm talking about those people who you'd hold responsible for driving you to suicide. Sure it's psychotic, but we aren't talking about a normal mentally balanced person. We are talking about someone who has already been driven so far, that they are considering taking their own life to make the pain stop.
niels_olson 17y ago
vaksel, your statements about getting a bunch of guns, going out in a blaze of glory, etc, clearly indicate you are full of hope and would be justifiably pissed off if external forces pushed you toward suicide. This is in line with your desire to be remembered, your legacy, you want to have consequences. I think a number of the negative responses toward you are from folks who have known death and have learned to cherish life the more thereby. They are deeply concerned by what may appear to be cavalier comments about killing. Justifiably so. You're in a forum for hackers. Presumably you find the values of hackers to be admirable. And you seem to have put a lot of effort into pushing back. If I had to guess, you want someone to tell you why you're wrong, but not just tell you, you want them to prove it. Well, instead, be a good hacker, and figure it out yourself. Go read up on suicide. Why people commit suicide. Here's a good place to start: http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=aaron+beck+hopelessness http://scholar.google.com/scholar?q=aaron+beck+hopelessness

sailormoon 17y ago

I disagree with vaksel but this is too much. Account deletion? Forcibly committed? He has a right to his opinion and should have the right to say it. It's been forcefully condemned by the community, which is an adequate repudiation. Funny how you identified his post as a "thing you can't say". I seem to remember reading an essay about that very topic somewhere.