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Dr Oye wants us to seriously entertain the idea that if we simply regulate drug production then we would be safe from drug cartels? Regulation is not a magic cu

Dr Oye wants us to seriously entertain the idea that if we simply regulate drug production then we would be safe from drug cartels? Regulation is not a magic cure for basic human behavior. If people want drugs, they will get them, and there will be others to make it. Any time you make a law restricting the production of drugs, you are simply removing competition for those that don't follow the law. Drug cartels would be stopped in their tracks if the US ended the war on drugs. I also find it curious that he comments on big pharma already having access to abundant supplies of opium, but it would be disaster if local producers could produce morphine or heroine. God forbid anyone else undercuts them with a cheaper-to-produce product. Any talk of how to better fight the drug war is just rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic. Drug use is a medical and social issue, not a criminal one. The attitude of drugs as a criminal issue is also one of the reasons the US has the highest incarceration rate in the world. I am frankly tired of being fed the notion that the existence of drugs is a constant danger to society, and the only way out is to fight a never-ending war.

fapjacks 11y ago
I couldn't have said it better myself. You are absolutely spot on. Thanks.
feld 11y ago
I'm just going to quote this from now on.
Nadya 11y ago
Then there is Portugal. Decriminalization of most drugs and instead of giving prison time they give treatment. >The argument was that the fear of prison drives addicts underground and that incarceration is more expensive than treatment — so why not give drug addicts health services instead? http://content.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1893946,00.html http://content.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1893946,0... If you create a black market for something - it is often less regulated, more dangerous, and more criminal than what you are trying to ban.
- simplemath 11y ago
  paraphrasing an old adage: There's no money in the cure.
- the_watcher 11y ago
  Prison time for drug use alone is a waste of resources. Prison time for crimes committed while under the influence is probably necessary (not just politically, but the moral hazard offering "under the influence" as a way to reduce your punishment is a pretty bad incentive). A big problem is the difficulty in determining who is a "user" and who is a "distributor who uses." Not sure there is a good solution there, but a great start would be replacing incarceration for simple possession with treatment.
bko 11y ago
I was surprised to learn the prevalence of illegal substances in prisons [0]. If authorities are unable to curtail access to drugs in one of the most controlled environments in the country, what hope do they have of removing them from the streets? Seems like a lost cause. [0] http://nakedlaw.avvo.com/crime/how-common-are-drugs-in-prison.html http://nakedlaw.avvo.com/crime/how-common-are-drugs-in-priso...
- x0x0 11y ago
  I believe you fundamentally misunderstand. In order to believe that the authorities really think they can remove drugs, you'd have to assume they continue to hold this belief in spite of 44 years of post war-on-drugs evidence. I mean, I think cops are authoritarian idiots, but they're not that stupid. As Bill Hicks said, we had a war on drugs, and the people on drugs won. They're more pure and often cheaper than ever. Rather, the war on drugs is a way to systematically deprive people of civil rights and transfer control to police. Not to mention all the private prison vendors who are making bank. And the military industrial complex selling weapons to the police. Seen from this angle, actions make sense. After all, we've never really had a war on drugs -- we've had a war on some classes (black, poor) of people who use some (crack bad! coke ok! heroin bad! adderall good! xanax good!) drugs.
  - the_watcher 11y ago
    I don't think it's hopeless, it's just that focusing on removing the supply without solving the root cause (namely that there is major, lucrative demand) is a waste of resources.
- the_watcher 11y ago
  The prison example is one of the most illustrative of the endemic problems of regulation: in prison, both the buyers and the substances are regulated by law, yet the presence of buyers inevitably leads to sellers filling the demand.
  - stephengillie 11y ago
venomsnake 11y ago
Also - regulation would not help. Drug cartels only need to know it is possible and they will find a way. Even in 3rd world countries there are universities. Scientists there are trained to produce miracles out of double nothing. And with the money cartels have - buying research won't be hard.

fapjacks 11y ago

I couldn't have said it better myself. You are absolutely spot on. Thanks.

feld 11y ago

I'm just going to quote this from now on.

Nadya 11y ago

Then there is Portugal. Decriminalization of most drugs and instead of giving prison time they give treatment. >The argument was that the fear of prison drives addicts underground and that incarceration is more expensive than treatment — so why not give drug addicts health services instead? http://content.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1893946,00.html http://content.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1893946,0... If you create a black market for something - it is often less regulated, more dangerous, and more criminal than what you are trying to ban.

simplemath 11y ago
paraphrasing an old adage: There's no money in the cure.
the_watcher 11y ago
Prison time for drug use alone is a waste of resources. Prison time for crimes committed while under the influence is probably necessary (not just politically, but the moral hazard offering "under the influence" as a way to reduce your punishment is a pretty bad incentive). A big problem is the difficulty in determining who is a "user" and who is a "distributor who uses." Not sure there is a good solution there, but a great start would be replacing incarceration for simple possession with treatment.

bko 11y ago

I was surprised to learn the prevalence of illegal substances in prisons [0]. If authorities are unable to curtail access to drugs in one of the most controlled environments in the country, what hope do they have of removing them from the streets? Seems like a lost cause. [0] http://nakedlaw.avvo.com/crime/how-common-are-drugs-in-prison.html http://nakedlaw.avvo.com/crime/how-common-are-drugs-in-priso...

x0x0 11y ago
I believe you fundamentally misunderstand. In order to believe that the authorities really think they can remove drugs, you'd have to assume they continue to hold this belief in spite of 44 years of post war-on-drugs evidence. I mean, I think cops are authoritarian idiots, but they're not that stupid. As Bill Hicks said, we had a war on drugs, and the people on drugs won. They're more pure and often cheaper than ever. Rather, the war on drugs is a way to systematically deprive people of civil rights and transfer control to police. Not to mention all the private prison vendors who are making bank. And the military industrial complex selling weapons to the police. Seen from this angle, actions make sense. After all, we've never really had a war on drugs -- we've had a war on some classes (black, poor) of people who use some (crack bad! coke ok! heroin bad! adderall good! xanax good!) drugs.
- the_watcher 11y ago
  I don't think it's hopeless, it's just that focusing on removing the supply without solving the root cause (namely that there is major, lucrative demand) is a waste of resources.
the_watcher 11y ago
The prison example is one of the most illustrative of the endemic problems of regulation: in prison, both the buyers and the substances are regulated by law, yet the presence of buyers inevitably leads to sellers filling the demand.
- stephengillie 11y ago

venomsnake 11y ago

Also - regulation would not help. Drug cartels only need to know it is possible and they will find a way. Even in 3rd world countries there are universities. Scientists there are trained to produce miracles out of double nothing. And with the money cartels have - buying research won't be hard.