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> To ease the pain of the breakup, my standard interview routine includes a segment on Why and How I’ll Fire You. > "... But repeated lapses of judgment or a h

> To ease the pain of the breakup, my standard interview routine includes a segment on Why and How I’ll Fire You. > "... But repeated lapses of judgment or a habitually disruptive attitude can’t be tolerated, and we will have to part company. In plain English, I will fire you." I'm not saying that setting expectations up front is a bad thing, but I've never had the topic of firing brought up -- ever -- in any of the many interviews I've had over my career. And therefore, if this were brought up without my asking about their firing policies, the thought that would go through my mind would be along the lines of: "Wow, this company must have to deal with this quite a bit in order for it to be covered like this during an interview setting. Either this place causes people's attitudes to take a major turn for the worse, or they do a terrible job at filtering out bad attitudes during the interview process." Or... "Was there something on my resume or something that I said during the interview that may have triggered this?" Again, transparency is a good thing. And if I'm already asking about their firing policies during an interview, then maybe this is a good way to approach it. But hearing it come up -- and like this -- during an interview without solicitation just reeks of a toxic environment.

alistairSH 11y ago
100% agreed. This would completely sour me on the position.
solve 11y ago
I have on 2 separate occasions... when, I against my better judgement, took some consulting work with obvious clients from hell. Immediate not so subtle threats from the beginning. Turned out that all of their previous contracting experiences with others had ended up a disaster, as did my experience with them. It's the threats that pretend not to be threats that really seem to be one of the strongest indicators. Yeah, at this point I'd assume that anyone who's making any sort of threats from the very start is going to turn into one of these employers from hell. True or not. Actually, I'd be surprised if the OP isn't the employer from hell. Trust your first instincts on this stuff guys.
- gonzo 11y ago
  I'd follow Gassé to war.
  - solve 11y ago
    Didn't mean to overreact toward the OP. I really haven't heard or seen about him to judge either way. As you can see, I was rather traumatized by those 2 clients from hell.
taylonr 11y ago
>But hearing it come up -- and like this -- during an interview without solicitation just reeks of a toxic environment. That was my thought. As I was reading this, the voice in my head said "Run! Run for the hills!"
- gonzo 11y ago
  You got a trophy for playing soccer in your childhood, right?
wpietri 11y ago
I've had it come up and thought it was great. In my case, the timing of other offers meant that the potential employer would have to hire me without all of their normal process. That worried them. I explained that if it didn't work out, there was no sense for either of us in me staying on when it wasn't a good match. We then had a reasonable, adult conversation about hiring and firing and our approaches thereto. It was honestly part of what sold me on the place. I think that companies that treat firing as some sort of spooky bogeyman are not so good at management. It's not like failing to talk about it means that firing isn't a possible outcome; it just means that people dance around it.
- x0x0 11y ago
  It's an adult approach to work. Like linkedin / Reid Hoffman's approach to career development: stop pretending you're joining a company for life; instead, treat employment as a tour of duty with limited duration. The company gets X from you, and you get Y from the company. At the end, you may or may not choose to re-up, with new goals for both sides. ala https://hbr.org/2013/06/tours-of-duty-the-new-employer-employee-compact https://hbr.org/2013/06/tours-of-duty-the-new-employer-emplo...
grkvlt 11y ago
> Wow, this company must have to deal with this quite a bit in order for it to be covered like this during an interview setting. Or, their hiring managers are very experienced and are basing this on decades of industry experience over many different managerial positions. They have learned the best practices for employee retention and dismissal over time, so they know to mention this now.
- mattmanser 11y ago
  We can live in your hypothetical Or world, or we can live in the real world where most sane people would interpret a segment like this as: "Red flag, red flag, their CEO is a complete nightmare, run away, run away".
  - Nadya 11y ago
    >Or World I like that phrase. I'll be using that.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
- jader201 11y ago
  Even if this were true -- which is debatable -- I think the much more likely scenario is that the employer has had problems in the past, and very possibly in the present (whether the fault of the employer and/or employee(s)). Regardless, I just don't think it would be worth risking highly talented candidates (rightly) misinterpreting bringing up the topic of firing during an interview as an indicator of a toxic environment, and therefore think this is not very sound advice.
  - geebee 11y ago
    I agree, but imagine if instead of getting this speech during the interview, you got it the first day on the job. I suppose in that case I'd still have the option of calling my old employer and asking for my job back, or maybe an employer I'd turned down to ask if the job is still available.
cookiecaper 11y ago
As a small employer who has directly employed no more than 2 full-time employees at once, I make a habit to very clearly emphasize in the interview that I am running a small outfit that has a real and serious chance of vanishing overnight, or coming upon unexpected budgetary circumstances that necessitate the instantaneous layoff of some or all employees. Despite this clear warning, I've still had employees get upset when we've needed to part ways. I still think it's a good spiel to rehearse but I've stopped believing anyone will take it seriously.
- mahyarm 11y ago
  Getting fired is fundamentally upsetting. It's hard to avoid.

alistairSH 11y ago

100% agreed. This would completely sour me on the position.

solve 11y ago

I have on 2 separate occasions... when, I against my better judgement, took some consulting work with obvious clients from hell. Immediate not so subtle threats from the beginning. Turned out that all of their previous contracting experiences with others had ended up a disaster, as did my experience with them. It's the threats that pretend not to be threats that really seem to be one of the strongest indicators. Yeah, at this point I'd assume that anyone who's making any sort of threats from the very start is going to turn into one of these employers from hell. True or not. Actually, I'd be surprised if the OP isn't the employer from hell. Trust your first instincts on this stuff guys.

gonzo 11y ago
I'd follow Gassé to war.
- solve 11y ago
  Didn't mean to overreact toward the OP. I really haven't heard or seen about him to judge either way. As you can see, I was rather traumatized by those 2 clients from hell.

taylonr 11y ago

>But hearing it come up -- and like this -- during an interview without solicitation just reeks of a toxic environment. That was my thought. As I was reading this, the voice in my head said "Run! Run for the hills!"

gonzo 11y ago
You got a trophy for playing soccer in your childhood, right?

wpietri 11y ago

I've had it come up and thought it was great. In my case, the timing of other offers meant that the potential employer would have to hire me without all of their normal process. That worried them. I explained that if it didn't work out, there was no sense for either of us in me staying on when it wasn't a good match. We then had a reasonable, adult conversation about hiring and firing and our approaches thereto. It was honestly part of what sold me on the place. I think that companies that treat firing as some sort of spooky bogeyman are not so good at management. It's not like failing to talk about it means that firing isn't a possible outcome; it just means that people dance around it.

x0x0 11y ago
It's an adult approach to work. Like linkedin / Reid Hoffman's approach to career development: stop pretending you're joining a company for life; instead, treat employment as a tour of duty with limited duration. The company gets X from you, and you get Y from the company. At the end, you may or may not choose to re-up, with new goals for both sides. ala https://hbr.org/2013/06/tours-of-duty-the-new-employer-employee-compact https://hbr.org/2013/06/tours-of-duty-the-new-employer-emplo...

grkvlt 11y ago

> Wow, this company must have to deal with this quite a bit in order for it to be covered like this during an interview setting. Or, their hiring managers are very experienced and are basing this on decades of industry experience over many different managerial positions. They have learned the best practices for employee retention and dismissal over time, so they know to mention this now.

mattmanser 11y ago
We can live in your hypothetical Or world, or we can live in the real world where most sane people would interpret a segment like this as: "Red flag, red flag, their CEO is a complete nightmare, run away, run away".
- Nadya 11y ago
  >Or World I like that phrase. I'll be using that.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
jader201 11y ago
Even if this were true -- which is debatable -- I think the much more likely scenario is that the employer has had problems in the past, and very possibly in the present (whether the fault of the employer and/or employee(s)). Regardless, I just don't think it would be worth risking highly talented candidates (rightly) misinterpreting bringing up the topic of firing during an interview as an indicator of a toxic environment, and therefore think this is not very sound advice.
- geebee 11y ago
  I agree, but imagine if instead of getting this speech during the interview, you got it the first day on the job. I suppose in that case I'd still have the option of calling my old employer and asking for my job back, or maybe an employer I'd turned down to ask if the job is still available.

cookiecaper 11y ago

As a small employer who has directly employed no more than 2 full-time employees at once, I make a habit to very clearly emphasize in the interview that I am running a small outfit that has a real and serious chance of vanishing overnight, or coming upon unexpected budgetary circumstances that necessitate the instantaneous layoff of some or all employees. Despite this clear warning, I've still had employees get upset when we've needed to part ways. I still think it's a good spiel to rehearse but I've stopped believing anyone will take it seriously.

mahyarm 11y ago
Getting fired is fundamentally upsetting. It's hard to avoid.