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If you don't want to face charges, don't commit the crime in the first place. But more seriously, you will face charges anyway. And if you haven't said anythin

by LLWM 11y ago

If you don't want to face charges, don't commit the crime in the first place. But more seriously, you will face charges anyway. And if you haven't said anything, that will only prolong the inevitable. Or is it your personal goal to get away with committing crimes?

mindslight 11y ago
Many routine crimes occur because the legal system diverges from sanity. And indeed it is people's goals (and the proper moral thing) to "get away" with these "crimes". I too would love if the map matched the territory. But the map has got to be the thing to change.
- LLWM 11y ago
  I disagree. If you want to use civil disobedience as a tool for changing bad laws, you have to be willing to accept the punishment for disobeying those laws. Otherwise you're not an activist, just an asshole. If you'd rather not be punished for breaking a bad law, that's fine too. Just lobby for it to be changed without violating the law, like the rest of us.
  - mindslight 11y ago
    I'm not talking about civil disobedience, but simply living your life without dwelling on someone else's proscriptions for it. > like the rest of us False appeal to a nonexistent herd. People living your viewpoint are actually in the minority. Many people do drugs, and most people speed. As I said, I too would like actions to better line up with laws. But in our society of victimless "crimes", the answer isn't to insist that people need to follow the abstract model harder, but to fix the model to line up with reasonable people's behavior. And this is not the moral responsibility of people who simply wish to live their life, but of those who are creating this system of rules and calling it justice. To think otherwise is to believe that individuals should be servants of their government.
    - LLWM 11y ago
      Nobody's claiming the answer is to simply accept bad laws along with the good ones. That's absurd. It should be pretty obvious that the only sensible answer is to get rid of the bad laws. We're just talking about what to do in the interim, since that process is not going to be instantaneous - scoff at whichever laws you personally disagree with, break those laws and accept the preposterous consequences as a form of protest, or follow them even though they're stupid. If you don't see the first option as a recipe for chaos, I don't know what else to say to you.
      - mindslight 11y ago
        Sure it's a recipe for chaos, but that chaos should be blamed on the people who made the unreasonable laws in the first place. "Stop snitching" isn't the problem, it's a symptom.
        LLWM 11y ago
        Or instead of playing a blame game, perhaps we can try to be good people and improve society.
        mindslight 11y ago
        We're both trying to be good people and improve society, which is why we're debating a moral code to live by. Correctly assigning blame is an important part of diagnosing a problem. Otherwise, being free from scrutiny, the responsible party keeps right on creating problems.

by LLWM 11y ago

mindslight 11y ago

Many routine crimes occur because the legal system diverges from sanity. And indeed it is people's goals (and the proper moral thing) to "get away" with these "crimes". I too would love if the map matched the territory. But the map has got to be the thing to change.

LLWM 11y ago
I disagree. If you want to use civil disobedience as a tool for changing bad laws, you have to be willing to accept the punishment for disobeying those laws. Otherwise you're not an activist, just an asshole. If you'd rather not be punished for breaking a bad law, that's fine too. Just lobby for it to be changed without violating the law, like the rest of us.
- mindslight 11y ago
  I'm not talking about civil disobedience, but simply living your life without dwelling on someone else's proscriptions for it. > like the rest of us False appeal to a nonexistent herd. People living your viewpoint are actually in the minority. Many people do drugs, and most people speed. As I said, I too would like actions to better line up with laws. But in our society of victimless "crimes", the answer isn't to insist that people need to follow the abstract model harder, but to fix the model to line up with reasonable people's behavior. And this is not the moral responsibility of people who simply wish to live their life, but of those who are creating this system of rules and calling it justice. To think otherwise is to believe that individuals should be servants of their government.
  - LLWM 11y ago
    Nobody's claiming the answer is to simply accept bad laws along with the good ones. That's absurd. It should be pretty obvious that the only sensible answer is to get rid of the bad laws. We're just talking about what to do in the interim, since that process is not going to be instantaneous - scoff at whichever laws you personally disagree with, break those laws and accept the preposterous consequences as a form of protest, or follow them even though they're stupid. If you don't see the first option as a recipe for chaos, I don't know what else to say to you.
    - mindslight 11y ago
      Sure it's a recipe for chaos, but that chaos should be blamed on the people who made the unreasonable laws in the first place. "Stop snitching" isn't the problem, it's a symptom.
      - LLWM 11y ago
        Or instead of playing a blame game, perhaps we can try to be good people and improve society.
        mindslight 11y ago
        We're both trying to be good people and improve society, which is why we're debating a moral code to live by. Correctly assigning blame is an important part of diagnosing a problem. Otherwise, being free from scrutiny, the responsible party keeps right on creating problems.