8 ms·

Evidence of Advantages for Children of Working Mothers

34 points by senith 11y ago

smackay 11y ago
The article does not mention it but where are the kids when the mother is at work? More than likely this is in day-care rather than in the home of another family member (most likely the grandparents). The likelihood is that the kids are in a richer environment, materially and socially. When you mix in the added benefit of parents not having spent all day dealing with the childens' needs then it's no surprise that generally they are able to devote more attention to them. None of this is the direct benefit of a parent being at work. You would probably see all these advantages if one of the parents simply stayed at home, while the kids were in day-care. But where is the money going to come from for that.
- fulafel 11y ago
  This is also a good argument for providing free or heavily subsidized daycare to children whose parents are unemployed or outside the workforce.
  - danieltillett 11y ago
    What argument?
    - fulafel 11y ago
      This: > [In day-care] the likelihood is that the kids are in a richer environment, materially and socially. Think single parent suffering from mental health issues and unable to work, or other disadvantaged stimulus poor domestic environment.
ganarajpr 11y ago
Would be quite interesting to have a Hacker news poll to see the distrubution of hners whose mother went to work! I dont seem to have enough karma to create one unfortunately. Can someone else do it please ?
rayiner 11y ago
I never understood the idea that having mom (or dad) at home is the best thing for kids. When our daughter is at daycare, she's in a very stimulating environment staffed by energetic 22-year olds on 6 hour shifts. When she's at home with me my instinct is to bribe her with some ice cream and park her in front of her iPad. My wife has slightly more desire to engage with the kid, but no more energy for it--she's pretty spent after 2-3 hours.
- petercooper 11y ago
  It probably isn't in every case but my wife is passionate about it and treats it as a full time job. She takes our daughters out to social groups, meetups, farms, gymnastics, swimming.. every day. There's nothing wrong with daycare (my eldest went half-time for a year for the social opportunities and because it's free in the UK ;-)) but a full-time parent can provide even more variety and social opportunities with the right resources and the right community around them. One unexpected upside is my wife spends so much time in the community it has really extended our circle of friends. The biggest downside, however, is I still get to enjoy half the chores because my wife is rarely home in the daytime(!) ;-)
- ams6110 11y ago
  Nobody will care for or about a child more than that child's mother (barring psychological abnormalities in the mother). Father a close second. Even the best daycare is going to devote only a fraction of the instruction/attention to any individual child. If your approach as a parent is to give "the kid" ice cream and electronic distractions, I think you should seriously reevaluate your priorities.
  - rayiner 11y ago
    Caring is a separate issue from having the aptitude and temperament for the labor of child care. I'd do anything for my daughter, but let's face it, she's boring. She's slightly smarter than a puppy, and while it's all magical a couple of hours a day, I can't imagine engaging with her day-in and day-out, any more than I can imagine being a factory worker who just does one movement all day long. I'd go crazy. The daycare worker certainly wouldn't run in front of a bus to protect my kid, which I'd do in a heartbeat. But that's not a day-to-day need.
arethuza 11y ago
I was quite delighted that my mother worked - she was the part time librarian of our village library. So from about 10 or so she would let me take the key of the library and get books as often as I wanted - providing I stuck to the limits of the number of books I borrowed at one time and kept record of what books I had borrowed in the same way as everyone else.
mathgeek 11y ago
“Was it really her mother working who did this, or was it her mother getting an education?” I'd personally wager on the latter. We have plenty of studies on the topic of "being educated increases the average education level of your children."
m-i-l 11y ago
"it is difficult to know whether a mother who worked caused her daughter to work, or whether other factors were more influential" - reminds me of the "An Eleanor is 100 times more likely to go to Oxford than a Jade" study from last year, i.e. the names themselves might not cause the difference but rather other factors which the names represent.
snickerdoodles 11y ago
"In a new study of 50,000 adults in 25 countries, daughters of working mothers completed more years of education, were more likely to be employed and in supervisory roles and earned higher incomes" - TLDR, children will imitate what you do, not what you tell them to do. This is good for certain values of good (depending on how you define a 'good' adult). The title of the article (Mounting Evidence of Advantages for Children of Working Mothers) seems to define having a career as an advantage, but is it really?
- danieltillett 11y ago
  How about we rephrase this. Daughters of those mothers that earn enough to make putting their children in childcare are more likely to earn more than mothers who's wages are too low to afford childcare. Phrased this way we come to the startling conclusion that the children of the middle class grow up to be middle class. I am shocked.
  - fulafel 11y ago
    This doesn't explain why the relationship holds true even in countries with free or heavily subsidized daycare. Or why only daughters are affected, along many variables. Picked these from the HBS post @ http://www.hbs.edu/news/articles/Pages/mcginn-working-mom.aspx http://www.hbs.edu/news/articles/Pages/mcginn-working-mom.as... Anyone have a link to the paper?
    - danieltillett 11y ago
      Even when childcare is heavily subsidised it use will still be dominated by the middle classes. If you are unemployed why go to the effort to cart the children you love down to some strangers even if you don't have to pay anything.
      - fulafel 11y ago
        You were talking about low wage mothers, I responded to that. They are anyway more numerous than unemployed-for-reasons-unrelated-to-parenting mothers. (This can also make financial sense to subsidize, as otherwise they'll have a larger probability to go unemployed and permanently fall out of workfroce later when kids go to school)
facepalm 11y ago
It just says daughters of working mothers are more likely to become working mothers themselves. They consider working moms to be a good thing, and prove it by showing that working moms have working daughters, which is in their opinion a good thing. A bit circular. I am not against working mothers, just saying one should be clear about one's judgement. For me it is not a given that working is a good thing. At least not in general (not for any kind of work).
Shivetya 11y ago
perhaps some are spending more quality time with their kids because the are not home and feel more obligated to do so. throw in the idea that children learn from the actions of their parent and so success is more likely from seeing parents already in the workplace the outcome becomes expected
posnet 11y ago
For basically the entirety of my childhood. Both my parents were working. I can honestly say I am a better person for it. And not just because of the material benefits it afforded me (better education, got to travel a lot). Through out my childhood both parents had jobs with varying amounts of time requirements, with both having periods of stay a home spouse (I believe my father found this particularly eye opening) and both periods of 9-7 working time. They always took the time to explain to me and my sister about why they were doing the things they were and ensuring that we were comfortable with their decisions. Now it may be that it was this honesty that had the greatest benefit. However I do think I have a much greater appreciation for the importance of a purposeful work life balance. Mind you, not necessarily a highly even balance, just ensure that if you are working 50 hours a week, there should be a goal in mind. In fact every decision about lifestyle should be carefully thought about.
danieltillett 11y ago
Take this personal anecdote for what it is worth. My office used to be next door to a childcare centre looking after around 40 children. I was able to watch what happened throughout the day and what the staff and children did. After a few months I swore no matter what the financial cost I would not let my children ever end up in childcare.
- Jem 11y ago
  For me, not using childcare == not working, which means I'd probably lose my home. I'm not sure that risk is worth it.
  - danieltillett 11y ago
    Would you be homeless or just living in a less ideal home? I am lucky to live in a country where my choice really is just a trade in the level of material comfort, but I understand this is not the same for everyone.
    - Jem 11y ago
      I would be homeless, first and foremost, because I wouldn't be able to pay my mortgage and the bank would seize my assets. Eventually I would be eligible for state benefits and placed on a waiting list for a council owned property, but waiting lists are long. I might be able to get shelter in a women's refuge in the mean time, but I'm not sure that's an ideal place to raise my children just so that I can claim the moral high ground on childcare use.
      - danieltillett 11y ago
        If you could not pay your mortgage could you not sell and rent privately? Please don't take this as a critism of your decision - I made mine and I am happy with my choice, but I don't expect that what is best for me is best for everyone.
        11y ago
Jem 11y ago
Are there any studies on working father's impact on children? (A quick google returns a few studies on father's impact but not working ones specifically.) Damned if you do, damned if you don't. If you work, you're a neglectful parent. If you don't, you're sucking off the state. (UK stereotypes) I have done the 3 main variants of parent-work balance (staying at home, working at home, working out of the home) with my 2 children and I'm not convinced that any one is better than the other, personally. But what does one little anecdote mean in the grand scheme of things...
- danieltillett 11y ago
  To answer your first question there is little incentive to look into this question as no one with serious money wants to know the answer. Which of the three options was best for you?
  - Jem 11y ago
    Hard to say. As a stay at home mum I felt unfulfilled and lonely. In the early years of returning to work full time I felt guilty for leaving my child in daycare. Working at home (with a mix of juggling kids and some daycare) I felt isolated and over-worked. I'm actually in the process of working my notice at my current job so that I can return to working from home, but as it stands I have no intention of reducing my son's hours in childcare. I'd like to think that I can find a balance between working (for mental satisfaction as well as financial reasons) and time with my youngest outside of childcare, but this depends on my success in the coming months. If nothing else my son starts school in September 2016 so at least I won't have a ~£645 childcare bill each month :)
carsongross 11y ago
And yet, and yet... Female happiness marches relentlessly downward. http://www.nber.org/papers/w14969 http://www.nber.org/papers/w14969

34 points by senith 11y ago

The article does not mention it but where are the kids when the mother is at work? More than likely this is in day-care rather than in the home of another family member (most likely the grandparents). The likelihood is that the kids are in a richer environment, materially and socially. When you mix in the added benefit of parents not having spent all day dealing with the childens' needs then it's no surprise that generally they are able to devote more attention to them. None of this is the direct benefit of a parent being at work. You would probably see all these advantages if one of the parents simply stayed at home, while the kids were in day-care. But where is the money going to come from for that.

fulafel 11y ago
This is also a good argument for providing free or heavily subsidized daycare to children whose parents are unemployed or outside the workforce.
- danieltillett 11y ago
  What argument?
  - fulafel 11y ago
    This: > [In day-care] the likelihood is that the kids are in a richer environment, materially and socially. Think single parent suffering from mental health issues and unable to work, or other disadvantaged stimulus poor domestic environment.

ganarajpr 11y ago

Would be quite interesting to have a Hacker news poll to see the distrubution of hners whose mother went to work! I dont seem to have enough karma to create one unfortunately. Can someone else do it please ?

rayiner 11y ago

I never understood the idea that having mom (or dad) at home is the best thing for kids. When our daughter is at daycare, she's in a very stimulating environment staffed by energetic 22-year olds on 6 hour shifts. When she's at home with me my instinct is to bribe her with some ice cream and park her in front of her iPad. My wife has slightly more desire to engage with the kid, but no more energy for it--she's pretty spent after 2-3 hours.

petercooper 11y ago
It probably isn't in every case but my wife is passionate about it and treats it as a full time job. She takes our daughters out to social groups, meetups, farms, gymnastics, swimming.. every day. There's nothing wrong with daycare (my eldest went half-time for a year for the social opportunities and because it's free in the UK ;-)) but a full-time parent can provide even more variety and social opportunities with the right resources and the right community around them. One unexpected upside is my wife spends so much time in the community it has really extended our circle of friends. The biggest downside, however, is I still get to enjoy half the chores because my wife is rarely home in the daytime(!) ;-)
ams6110 11y ago
Nobody will care for or about a child more than that child's mother (barring psychological abnormalities in the mother). Father a close second. Even the best daycare is going to devote only a fraction of the instruction/attention to any individual child. If your approach as a parent is to give "the kid" ice cream and electronic distractions, I think you should seriously reevaluate your priorities.
- rayiner 11y ago
  Caring is a separate issue from having the aptitude and temperament for the labor of child care. I'd do anything for my daughter, but let's face it, she's boring. She's slightly smarter than a puppy, and while it's all magical a couple of hours a day, I can't imagine engaging with her day-in and day-out, any more than I can imagine being a factory worker who just does one movement all day long. I'd go crazy. The daycare worker certainly wouldn't run in front of a bus to protect my kid, which I'd do in a heartbeat. But that's not a day-to-day need.

arethuza 11y ago

I was quite delighted that my mother worked - she was the part time librarian of our village library. So from about 10 or so she would let me take the key of the library and get books as often as I wanted - providing I stuck to the limits of the number of books I borrowed at one time and kept record of what books I had borrowed in the same way as everyone else.

mathgeek 11y ago

“Was it really her mother working who did this, or was it her mother getting an education?” I'd personally wager on the latter. We have plenty of studies on the topic of "being educated increases the average education level of your children."

m-i-l 11y ago

"it is difficult to know whether a mother who worked caused her daughter to work, or whether other factors were more influential" - reminds me of the "An Eleanor is 100 times more likely to go to Oxford than a Jade" study from last year, i.e. the names themselves might not cause the difference but rather other factors which the names represent.

snickerdoodles 11y ago

"In a new study of 50,000 adults in 25 countries, daughters of working mothers completed more years of education, were more likely to be employed and in supervisory roles and earned higher incomes" - TLDR, children will imitate what you do, not what you tell them to do. This is good for certain values of good (depending on how you define a 'good' adult). The title of the article (Mounting Evidence of Advantages for Children of Working Mothers) seems to define having a career as an advantage, but is it really?

danieltillett 11y ago
How about we rephrase this. Daughters of those mothers that earn enough to make putting their children in childcare are more likely to earn more than mothers who's wages are too low to afford childcare. Phrased this way we come to the startling conclusion that the children of the middle class grow up to be middle class. I am shocked.
- fulafel 11y ago
  This doesn't explain why the relationship holds true even in countries with free or heavily subsidized daycare. Or why only daughters are affected, along many variables. Picked these from the HBS post @ http://www.hbs.edu/news/articles/Pages/mcginn-working-mom.aspx http://www.hbs.edu/news/articles/Pages/mcginn-working-mom.as... Anyone have a link to the paper?
  - danieltillett 11y ago
    Even when childcare is heavily subsidised it use will still be dominated by the middle classes. If you are unemployed why go to the effort to cart the children you love down to some strangers even if you don't have to pay anything.
    - fulafel 11y ago
      You were talking about low wage mothers, I responded to that. They are anyway more numerous than unemployed-for-reasons-unrelated-to-parenting mothers. (This can also make financial sense to subsidize, as otherwise they'll have a larger probability to go unemployed and permanently fall out of workfroce later when kids go to school)

facepalm 11y ago

It just says daughters of working mothers are more likely to become working mothers themselves. They consider working moms to be a good thing, and prove it by showing that working moms have working daughters, which is in their opinion a good thing. A bit circular. I am not against working mothers, just saying one should be clear about one's judgement. For me it is not a given that working is a good thing. At least not in general (not for any kind of work).

Shivetya 11y ago

perhaps some are spending more quality time with their kids because the are not home and feel more obligated to do so. throw in the idea that children learn from the actions of their parent and so success is more likely from seeing parents already in the workplace the outcome becomes expected

posnet 11y ago

For basically the entirety of my childhood. Both my parents were working. I can honestly say I am a better person for it. And not just because of the material benefits it afforded me (better education, got to travel a lot). Through out my childhood both parents had jobs with varying amounts of time requirements, with both having periods of stay a home spouse (I believe my father found this particularly eye opening) and both periods of 9-7 working time. They always took the time to explain to me and my sister about why they were doing the things they were and ensuring that we were comfortable with their decisions. Now it may be that it was this honesty that had the greatest benefit. However I do think I have a much greater appreciation for the importance of a purposeful work life balance. Mind you, not necessarily a highly even balance, just ensure that if you are working 50 hours a week, there should be a goal in mind. In fact every decision about lifestyle should be carefully thought about.

danieltillett 11y ago

Take this personal anecdote for what it is worth. My office used to be next door to a childcare centre looking after around 40 children. I was able to watch what happened throughout the day and what the staff and children did. After a few months I swore no matter what the financial cost I would not let my children ever end up in childcare.

Jem 11y ago
For me, not using childcare == not working, which means I'd probably lose my home. I'm not sure that risk is worth it.
- danieltillett 11y ago
  Would you be homeless or just living in a less ideal home? I am lucky to live in a country where my choice really is just a trade in the level of material comfort, but I understand this is not the same for everyone.
  - Jem 11y ago
    I would be homeless, first and foremost, because I wouldn't be able to pay my mortgage and the bank would seize my assets. Eventually I would be eligible for state benefits and placed on a waiting list for a council owned property, but waiting lists are long. I might be able to get shelter in a women's refuge in the mean time, but I'm not sure that's an ideal place to raise my children just so that I can claim the moral high ground on childcare use.
    - danieltillett 11y ago
      If you could not pay your mortgage could you not sell and rent privately? Please don't take this as a critism of your decision - I made mine and I am happy with my choice, but I don't expect that what is best for me is best for everyone.
      - 11y ago

Jem 11y ago

Are there any studies on working father's impact on children? (A quick google returns a few studies on father's impact but not working ones specifically.) Damned if you do, damned if you don't. If you work, you're a neglectful parent. If you don't, you're sucking off the state. (UK stereotypes) I have done the 3 main variants of parent-work balance (staying at home, working at home, working out of the home) with my 2 children and I'm not convinced that any one is better than the other, personally. But what does one little anecdote mean in the grand scheme of things...

danieltillett 11y ago
To answer your first question there is little incentive to look into this question as no one with serious money wants to know the answer. Which of the three options was best for you?
- Jem 11y ago
  Hard to say. As a stay at home mum I felt unfulfilled and lonely. In the early years of returning to work full time I felt guilty for leaving my child in daycare. Working at home (with a mix of juggling kids and some daycare) I felt isolated and over-worked. I'm actually in the process of working my notice at my current job so that I can return to working from home, but as it stands I have no intention of reducing my son's hours in childcare. I'd like to think that I can find a balance between working (for mental satisfaction as well as financial reasons) and time with my youngest outside of childcare, but this depends on my success in the coming months. If nothing else my son starts school in September 2016 so at least I won't have a ~£645 childcare bill each month :)

carsongross 11y ago

And yet, and yet... Female happiness marches relentlessly downward. http://www.nber.org/papers/w14969 http://www.nber.org/papers/w14969