3 ms·

And also a dream of every dictatorship and totalitarian. Other than recordable or traceable, you quickly get to a point where one keypress is all that is needed

by beagle3 12y ago

And also a dream of every dictatorship and totalitarian. Other than recordable or traceable, you quickly get to a point where one keypress is all that is needed to freeze someone's money. All of it. The question of abuse is not of "if", but rather of "when".

alkonaut 12y ago
I can't see how it's such a big difference from today? There is no way I could get my salary in cash/cheque, the only way I have of accessing my own money is via the bank it is transferred to. 99% of the time, I access it via a debit card at a. Granted, when I get cash I can buy something that can't be traced, but the cash man doesn't really care much what I buy, the VAT is taken from the store. If I was suspected of terrorism or some other crime that meant my assets should be frozen, that is a single push of a button already. I don't have a safe with cash, most people don't. Even if I had, it would be exceedingly hard to live cash-only, as any major purchase done in cash would be affected by money-laundry rules, so the tax man would certainly be informed if I bought e.g. a car cash (If I did so from a dealer I wouldn't be able to do it anonymously).
- gambiting 12y ago
  Just because you do it that way,doesn't mean everyone does. My parents employ 130 people and they are all paid in cash.
  - alkonaut 12y ago
    That sounds like it's US or at least not north/west Europe. My point is: in Denmark/Sweden/etc, the step to cash-free isn't very big, simply because of what I mentioned: we are more or less cash free already: Salaries are paid to bank accounts and never cash/cheque (cheques don't exist), bills are paid from bank accounts and not cash Cash is tracked by anti money laundry laws and so on and so forth. So unlike in the US those prerequisites are already in place. That is why a) it's not really a giant leap to stop using cash, and b) it's not really a major privacy concern as we are already pretty much completely tracked.
rtpg 12y ago
Honestly, do you think you could get around having your accounts frozen in most any developed country currently? And if your assets are frozen, chances are there's an arrest warrant for you and you have big issues. There's a pretty hard limit to what you can do with briefcases of $100 bills.
- beagle3 12y ago
  > if your assets are frozen, chances are there's an arrest warrant for you and you have big issues. Not necessarily. A friend of mine had all his bank accounts frozen by mistake in a modern western country (a tax was listed as unpaid, even though it was paid; Generally, they just take what they believe they are owed, but for some reason they couldn't and didn't, so everything was frozen instead). Took him about a (very stressful) week to resolve. > There's a pretty hard limit to what you can do with briefcases of $100 bills. If you live frugally, a couple of briefcases like that can go an extremely long way. "Big issues" is right, of course. You might be a persona non-grata with the government, even though you've done nothing illegal. Governments everywhere already have too much power and they abuse it on a daily basis. This will make it easier for them. (That's the price). It will also make some law enforcement better and easier (That's the benefit). Is it worth it? I don't know, but the price seems to be completely ignored, which bothers me.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]

by beagle3 12y ago

alkonaut 12y ago

I can't see how it's such a big difference from today? There is no way I could get my salary in cash/cheque, the only way I have of accessing my own money is via the bank it is transferred to. 99% of the time, I access it via a debit card at a. Granted, when I get cash I can buy something that can't be traced, but the cash man doesn't really care much what I buy, the VAT is taken from the store. If I was suspected of terrorism or some other crime that meant my assets should be frozen, that is a single push of a button already. I don't have a safe with cash, most people don't. Even if I had, it would be exceedingly hard to live cash-only, as any major purchase done in cash would be affected by money-laundry rules, so the tax man would certainly be informed if I bought e.g. a car cash (If I did so from a dealer I wouldn't be able to do it anonymously).

gambiting 12y ago
Just because you do it that way,doesn't mean everyone does. My parents employ 130 people and they are all paid in cash.
- alkonaut 12y ago
  That sounds like it's US or at least not north/west Europe. My point is: in Denmark/Sweden/etc, the step to cash-free isn't very big, simply because of what I mentioned: we are more or less cash free already: Salaries are paid to bank accounts and never cash/cheque (cheques don't exist), bills are paid from bank accounts and not cash Cash is tracked by anti money laundry laws and so on and so forth. So unlike in the US those prerequisites are already in place. That is why a) it's not really a giant leap to stop using cash, and b) it's not really a major privacy concern as we are already pretty much completely tracked.

rtpg 12y ago

Honestly, do you think you could get around having your accounts frozen in most any developed country currently? And if your assets are frozen, chances are there's an arrest warrant for you and you have big issues. There's a pretty hard limit to what you can do with briefcases of $100 bills.

beagle3 12y ago
> if your assets are frozen, chances are there's an arrest warrant for you and you have big issues. Not necessarily. A friend of mine had all his bank accounts frozen by mistake in a modern western country (a tax was listed as unpaid, even though it was paid; Generally, they just take what they believe they are owed, but for some reason they couldn't and didn't, so everything was frozen instead). Took him about a (very stressful) week to resolve. > There's a pretty hard limit to what you can do with briefcases of $100 bills. If you live frugally, a couple of briefcases like that can go an extremely long way. "Big issues" is right, of course. You might be a persona non-grata with the government, even though you've done nothing illegal. Governments everywhere already have too much power and they abuse it on a daily basis. This will make it easier for them. (That's the price). It will also make some law enforcement better and easier (That's the benefit). Is it worth it? I don't know, but the price seems to be completely ignored, which bothers me.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]