4 ms·

When has it ever swung "left"?

arethuza 11y ago
I think you would have to admit that the 1945 general election that removed Churchill from being PM and that went on to introduce the NHS was most definitely a swing to the left.
- TheOtherHobbes 11y ago
  Considering that was 70 years ago, that's an unusual definition of "fast". It was also the last peak for the left. The trend since then has an acceleration rightwards. Don't forget the UK came close to removing a democratically elected prime minister in a right-wing coup - not just once, but twice. The last genuinely left-wing prime minister resigned not long after the second alleged plot - and by a divinely-ordained coincidence his replacement was so utterly useless the electorate found themselves voting for the kind of right wing government the plotters had been working towards.
  - arethuza 11y ago
    "his replacement was so utterly useless" Do you mean Callaghan - my recent readings of the relevant histories (particularly those by Dominic Sandbrook) paint him in rather a positive light. Callaghan and the other "real" socialists were as appalled by the behavior of the unions then as everyone else.
fixxer 11y ago
Well... Obama, Bush, Clinton, Bush, Reagan, Carter, Ford/Nixon, Johnson, Johnson/JFK... Looks like swings to me.
- fweespeech 11y ago
  Obama and Clinton aren't "left". They are both very much the middle of the road politically. Bernie Sanders and Warren are the closet thing we have to a "left" in the US. They aren't presidents have little more than a bully pulpit.
  - fixxer 11y ago
    Perhaps by your metric, that is a true statement. The progressives I worked with were adamant and proud socialists and they worked his campaign.
    - yohoho22 11y ago
      Are you claiming that Obama is a socialist? If not (as I assume), then what was the point of your anecdote? I don't see where the guy you replied to claimed that Obama wasn't in some broad sense to the left of those he ran against.
      - fixxer 11y ago
        I think you're making the assumption that the President is the movement. That is simply inaccurate. The President, or any politician for that matter, is a vessel through which objectives are carried out. I will happily claim that the Progressives are socialists. The standing President is part of that clan within the Democratic party.
    - fweespeech 11y ago
      By the metric of the Western world, it is a true statement. I think a large part of the problem is people in US politics really, really don't get outside the bubble of the US. http://nation.foxnews.com/john-mccain/2011/02/03/mccain-obama-centrist http://nation.foxnews.com/john-mccain/2011/02/03/mccain-obam... Even Republicans have stated on the record that he is a centrist. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/david-cameron/9427438/David-Cameron-angered-US-conservatives-with-unprecedented-election-year-embrace-of-Barack-Obama.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/david-cameron/94274... > A second foreign policy adviser to Mr Romney said: “Cameron’s contacts with Republicans are really quite limited, and have been going back to when [George W.] Bush was president.” The adviser added: “In many respects Cameron is like Obama.” Like, this whole "Democrats are leftists" is just a Republican meme at this point in almost all respects.
      - fixxer 11y ago

I think you would have to admit that the 1945 general election that removed Churchill from being PM and that went on to introduce the NHS was most definitely a swing to the left.

TheOtherHobbes 11y ago
Considering that was 70 years ago, that's an unusual definition of "fast". It was also the last peak for the left. The trend since then has an acceleration rightwards. Don't forget the UK came close to removing a democratically elected prime minister in a right-wing coup - not just once, but twice. The last genuinely left-wing prime minister resigned not long after the second alleged plot - and by a divinely-ordained coincidence his replacement was so utterly useless the electorate found themselves voting for the kind of right wing government the plotters had been working towards.
- arethuza 11y ago
  "his replacement was so utterly useless" Do you mean Callaghan - my recent readings of the relevant histories (particularly those by Dominic Sandbrook) paint him in rather a positive light. Callaghan and the other "real" socialists were as appalled by the behavior of the unions then as everyone else.

fixxer 11y ago

Well... Obama, Bush, Clinton, Bush, Reagan, Carter, Ford/Nixon, Johnson, Johnson/JFK... Looks like swings to me.

fweespeech 11y ago
Obama and Clinton aren't "left". They are both very much the middle of the road politically. Bernie Sanders and Warren are the closet thing we have to a "left" in the US. They aren't presidents have little more than a bully pulpit.
- fixxer 11y ago
  Perhaps by your metric, that is a true statement. The progressives I worked with were adamant and proud socialists and they worked his campaign.
  - yohoho22 11y ago
    Are you claiming that Obama is a socialist? If not (as I assume), then what was the point of your anecdote? I don't see where the guy you replied to claimed that Obama wasn't in some broad sense to the left of those he ran against.
    - fixxer 11y ago
      I think you're making the assumption that the President is the movement. That is simply inaccurate. The President, or any politician for that matter, is a vessel through which objectives are carried out. I will happily claim that the Progressives are socialists. The standing President is part of that clan within the Democratic party.
  - fweespeech 11y ago
    By the metric of the Western world, it is a true statement. I think a large part of the problem is people in US politics really, really don't get outside the bubble of the US. http://nation.foxnews.com/john-mccain/2011/02/03/mccain-obama-centrist http://nation.foxnews.com/john-mccain/2011/02/03/mccain-obam... Even Republicans have stated on the record that he is a centrist. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/david-cameron/9427438/David-Cameron-angered-US-conservatives-with-unprecedented-election-year-embrace-of-Barack-Obama.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/david-cameron/94274... > A second foreign policy adviser to Mr Romney said: “Cameron’s contacts with Republicans are really quite limited, and have been going back to when [George W.] Bush was president.” The adviser added: “In many respects Cameron is like Obama.” Like, this whole "Democrats are leftists" is just a Republican meme at this point in almost all respects.
    - fixxer 11y ago