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Ok, so you're talking about a hypothetical non-fiat currency, rather than the one that's actually used. If you'd made that clear at the start, there wouldn't ha

by phaemon 11y ago

Ok, so you're talking about a hypothetical non-fiat currency, rather than the one that's actually used. If you'd made that clear at the start, there wouldn't have been so much misunderstanding. I should note that money didn't "just emerge". The reason money from the Roman Empire, for example, became so popular, even outside the empire, was because it was government backed. Outside the empire, people traded goods and would just use bits of gold or silver to trade, which suffered from massive fraud (mixing with base metals). > Is that supposed to be an argument against something I said? You'll have to explain how. Yes, it's an argument against the bit I quoted. That people would stop working because they saw others living on BI. I'm not going to stop working because I can do a lot better than BI, even working part time. Especially if it's started low, at $30 a week.

sillygoose 11y ago
> I should note that money didn't "just emerge". Gold and silver sure as hell did, and that's what I was referring to, which I'm pretty sure you saw anyway, especially considering you brought up gold too. Actually, the concept of "debasing currency" comes from the government of the time diluting the gold content of the gold coins in use back then. > That people would stop working because they saw others living on BI. Alright, so your argument against the idea that people would stop working because they saw others living on BI, is to snarkily suggest that you personally wouldn't? Surely you understand that other people very much would, even if you personally wouldn't? You'll have to try harder.
- phaemon 11y ago
  > Gold and silver sure as hell did, and that's what I was referring to No, they didn't. I was referring to gold and silver being used as tradeable goods, not as currency. There's a difference. Bertrand Russell wrote an essay on getting rid of the gold standard called "The Modern Midas". You'll find it in the collection "In Praise of Idleness". You might find it interesting. In fact, you might find the whole collection interesting, though I doubt you'd agree with any of them. > Surely you understand that other people very much would, even if you personally wouldn't? Oh, please. How many people would give up a job to live on $30 a week? You can live on welfare better than that. Would you give up your job for that? Do you know anyone who would?
  - sillygoose 11y ago
    > No, they didn't. I was referring to gold and silver being used as tradeable goods, not as currency. There's a difference. Oh come on. You know they did emerge, as mediums of exchange, which is what money/currency fundamentally is. You're making a meaningless distinction to cover your ass. > Oh, please. How many people would give up a job to live on $30 a week? We're talking about a Basic Income, where the idea is to get enough money to live on, right? That most definitely would cause many people to just stop working because they wouldn't need to anymore, even if the BI happened to be too low for you to stop collecting your phat paychecks. You get that, yes?
    - phaemon 11y ago
      > We're talking about a Basic Income, where the idea is to get enough money to live on, right? No, I specifically mentioned starting it low and even gave an example amount of $30 per week. Several times. My first post was saying "call it a Citizen's Dividend instead". With the exact reason that it would be good to monitor the effect. If you're going to refuse to actually think and read then you're not worth my time. Go away and learn something.

by phaemon 11y ago

sillygoose 11y ago

> I should note that money didn't "just emerge". Gold and silver sure as hell did, and that's what I was referring to, which I'm pretty sure you saw anyway, especially considering you brought up gold too. Actually, the concept of "debasing currency" comes from the government of the time diluting the gold content of the gold coins in use back then. > That people would stop working because they saw others living on BI. Alright, so your argument against the idea that people would stop working because they saw others living on BI, is to snarkily suggest that you personally wouldn't? Surely you understand that other people very much would, even if you personally wouldn't? You'll have to try harder.

phaemon 11y ago
> Gold and silver sure as hell did, and that's what I was referring to No, they didn't. I was referring to gold and silver being used as tradeable goods, not as currency. There's a difference. Bertrand Russell wrote an essay on getting rid of the gold standard called "The Modern Midas". You'll find it in the collection "In Praise of Idleness". You might find it interesting. In fact, you might find the whole collection interesting, though I doubt you'd agree with any of them. > Surely you understand that other people very much would, even if you personally wouldn't? Oh, please. How many people would give up a job to live on $30 a week? You can live on welfare better than that. Would you give up your job for that? Do you know anyone who would?
- sillygoose 11y ago
  > No, they didn't. I was referring to gold and silver being used as tradeable goods, not as currency. There's a difference. Oh come on. You know they did emerge, as mediums of exchange, which is what money/currency fundamentally is. You're making a meaningless distinction to cover your ass. > Oh, please. How many people would give up a job to live on $30 a week? We're talking about a Basic Income, where the idea is to get enough money to live on, right? That most definitely would cause many people to just stop working because they wouldn't need to anymore, even if the BI happened to be too low for you to stop collecting your phat paychecks. You get that, yes?
  - phaemon 11y ago
    > We're talking about a Basic Income, where the idea is to get enough money to live on, right? No, I specifically mentioned starting it low and even gave an example amount of $30 per week. Several times. My first post was saying "call it a Citizen's Dividend instead". With the exact reason that it would be good to monitor the effect. If you're going to refuse to actually think and read then you're not worth my time. Go away and learn something.