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We're constantly swimming in a stew of nudges from the private sector, from social norms, in addition to hard-and-fast rules and laws. Giving some thought to h

We're constantly swimming in a stew of nudges from the private sector, from social norms, in addition to hard-and-fast rules and laws. Giving some thought to how they impact behavior and how one might improve them seems like a pretty low bar. In particular the private sector spends hundreds of billions of dollars to nudge you towards a lifestyle that's more profitable for them, via ads to get you to eat unhealthy foods, buy a premium vodka that's indistinguishable from the next one on the shelf, not to mention gamble, smoke, etc. Someone comes along to study these polluted waters and ask why the fish are so unhealthy and the fish say, "what's water?" Let's not even study this stuff, since God forbid the gummint varmints use it to, I dunno, get people to save for retirement by default or sign up as organ donors, those bastards. Some further discussion http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-05-13/wonks-explain-why-we-re-smart-sometimes-dumb-others http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2015-05-13/wonks-expla...

WalterBright 11y ago
I ate margarine instead of butter for many years because the government said it was healthier. Turns out, it's much worse than butter. Be very careful of the idea that "nudges" from the government means they are correct.
- wodenokoto 11y ago
  Eh, it was not like that was a conspiracy. They genuinely thought it to be better. Right now we have the whole gluten thing, and while it might not affect you personally, a non-governmental nudging is changing millions of people's diet to something more expensive for no good reason what so ever. So it's not like the government has a monopoly and poor health advice.
  - jospoortvliet 11y ago
    Yeah, this is just how science works - there is no One Truth but a never ending attempt to approach it. That does mean sometimes they got it wrong, yet the scientific consensus is still the best approximation of reality you will find. Think about the shape of earth or the theory of gravity. It isn't truly round nor was Newton fully correct but both theories were more correct than their predecessors and we improved on them since. And probably will improve more in the future. The fact that science isn't perfect doesn't mean it is useless - compare it to medicine. The fact that in complicated cases no two doctors would pic the exact same therapy does neither mean it makes no difference (there certainly are ways to do things wrong in medicine) nor that there is no way to judge. It is 'just' complicated.
  - WalterBright 11y ago
    The world is full of people who genuinely believe they know what is best for you. Most of them are wrong. Many of them are in positions of power in government. My point is that just because a "nudge" is coming from the government is no reason to believe it is correct, free from bias, has no ulterior motives, or is applicable to everyone.
- RockyMcNuts 11y ago
  True, the food pyramid seems like it's effed up and should change. People should be skeptical. So, is studying diet and medicine and coming up with peer-reviewed consensus recommendations a terrible idea? People who followed that food pyramid would probably be better off than the average. I just think margarine is kind of a second-order problem, and you fix it, do better research and change the recommendation and work on more/better research. I kind of worry about folks who spend their days working on adtech to nudge people, wearing fitbits to nudge them to get up and walk around, saying OMG a nudge in the direction of the food pyramid is a slippery slope to insidious government mind control. If anybody should know the power of defaults and good UX to help people make better choices, it's people around here. I also worry about 300lb people in electric scooters, saying hands off my Big Gulp, I'm losing my freedom because somebody is trying to show calorie counts and reduce portion sizes and 'nudge' me.

WalterBright 11y ago

I ate margarine instead of butter for many years because the government said it was healthier. Turns out, it's much worse than butter. Be very careful of the idea that "nudges" from the government means they are correct.

wodenokoto 11y ago
Eh, it was not like that was a conspiracy. They genuinely thought it to be better. Right now we have the whole gluten thing, and while it might not affect you personally, a non-governmental nudging is changing millions of people's diet to something more expensive for no good reason what so ever. So it's not like the government has a monopoly and poor health advice.
- jospoortvliet 11y ago
  Yeah, this is just how science works - there is no One Truth but a never ending attempt to approach it. That does mean sometimes they got it wrong, yet the scientific consensus is still the best approximation of reality you will find. Think about the shape of earth or the theory of gravity. It isn't truly round nor was Newton fully correct but both theories were more correct than their predecessors and we improved on them since. And probably will improve more in the future. The fact that science isn't perfect doesn't mean it is useless - compare it to medicine. The fact that in complicated cases no two doctors would pic the exact same therapy does neither mean it makes no difference (there certainly are ways to do things wrong in medicine) nor that there is no way to judge. It is 'just' complicated.
- WalterBright 11y ago
  The world is full of people who genuinely believe they know what is best for you. Most of them are wrong. Many of them are in positions of power in government. My point is that just because a "nudge" is coming from the government is no reason to believe it is correct, free from bias, has no ulterior motives, or is applicable to everyone.
RockyMcNuts 11y ago
True, the food pyramid seems like it's effed up and should change. People should be skeptical. So, is studying diet and medicine and coming up with peer-reviewed consensus recommendations a terrible idea? People who followed that food pyramid would probably be better off than the average. I just think margarine is kind of a second-order problem, and you fix it, do better research and change the recommendation and work on more/better research. I kind of worry about folks who spend their days working on adtech to nudge people, wearing fitbits to nudge them to get up and walk around, saying OMG a nudge in the direction of the food pyramid is a slippery slope to insidious government mind control. If anybody should know the power of defaults and good UX to help people make better choices, it's people around here. I also worry about 300lb people in electric scooters, saying hands off my Big Gulp, I'm losing my freedom because somebody is trying to show calorie counts and reduce portion sizes and 'nudge' me.