6 ms·

> This is pretty evil, but it will continue happening as long as politicians can be bought to keep it legal. You could make this exact same argument for liquor

by wdr1 11y ago

> This is pretty evil, but it will continue happening as long as politicians can be bought to keep it legal. You could make this exact same argument for liquor sales. The top 10% of regular drinkers have 10 drinks a day. If they reduced their consumption to that of the next decile, total ethanol sales would fall by 60 percent.[1] We tried banning alcohol sales. It didn't work very well. [1] http://www.the-american-interest.com/2014/10/05/the-alcohol-industry-needs-alcoholism-to-thrive/ http://www.the-american-interest.com/2014/10/05/the-alcohol-...

hollerith 11y ago
>We tried banning alcohol sales. It didn't work very well. That might be persuasive if it were the only relevant information we had. But most US states maintained a complete ban on gambling for most of their existence, and those bans worked pretty well.
- cma 11y ago
  The alcohol ban might have worked prior to automobiles. Maybe the gambling ban only worked prior to the internet, at least until there was federal and not state level action on going after online gambling.
droopyEyelids 11y ago
We still don't culturally embrace alcohol as a good thing. You don't see the states advertising vodka like they advertise the lottery. There is a lot of room between making something illegal, and promoting it to take advantage of people.
- pekk 11y ago
  The lottery is a form of gambling, but is also pretty different from casinos.
- CONTRARlAN 11y ago
  > We still don't culturally embrace alcohol as a good thing. You don't see the states advertising vodka like they advertise the lottery. I'm having a hard time with this. Something doesn't have to be endorsed by the state to be culturally embraced, which seems to be what I'm understanding when I view both sentences in tandem. Apologies if I'm getting that wrong. But if I view the first sentence in isolation: > We still don't culturally embrace alcohol as a good thing. I'm still baffled, but for different reasons. Alcohol is endorsed, celebrated, and embraced from top to bottom in nearly all corners of contemporary society. It's served nearly everywhere, consuming it is the cultural norm, not consuming it is viewed with suspicion, it's lauded as being crucial to one's enjoyment of an evening, social gathering, sporting event, flight, etc. Entire business models exist that would otherwise be unprofitable if not for alcohol sales. Many establishments are essentially loss leaders but for their alcohol sales (which are supposedly tangential to their primary business offering). 2.5 million deaths are alcohol-related every year. It's a factor in 40% of all violent crimes. 24% of incidents involving police have alcohol as a factor. And yet, sit around at dinner with a group of guys and order a soft drink, and it's often viewed as abnormal behavior. Why? Because, for reasons passing understanding, we culturally embrace alcohol as a good thing.
jackpirate 11y ago
According to that article, 4% of Americans drink 10+ drinks per day. I find that very hard to believe, and it's certainly something that requires credible sources.
- patio11 11y ago
  You're welcome to download the data set from the National Epidemiologic Survey on Alcohol and Related Conditions if you want to check the math. The NIH makes it publicly available.
  - djt 11y ago
    Also keep in mind that it is 10 standard drinks, so a bottle of wine quarter bottle of scotch. It goes to show how much alcoholics hide their drinking
    - runamok 11y ago
      A bottle of wine is 5 x 5 ounce servings. 750 ml is 25.4 fluid ounces. Where do you get 10 from?
    - dragonwriter 11y ago
      > Also keep in mind that it is 10 standard drinks, so a bottle of wine quarter bottle of scotch 10 standard drinks is two bottles of wine, and 3/5 of a bottle of scotch. (Both using standard, 750 milliliter bottles.)
  - mechanical_fish 11y ago
    In tandem with looking up the data, I also recommend broadening your social circle by meeting a former alcoholic or two. They're not hard to find. Alternatively, you can read their memoirs, which are even easier to find. I don't recommend the alternative of seeing some of your friends or relatives drink themselves to death, even as their own closest friends fail to see what's going on. But you don't always have a choice. Sometimes the anecdotes find you. Anecdotes aren't data, but they are what human beings are designed to believe. If you have trouble envisioning evident facts that are backed by piles of data, perhaps you need to collect a wider range of anecdotes.

by wdr1 11y ago

hollerith 11y ago

>We tried banning alcohol sales. It didn't work very well. That might be persuasive if it were the only relevant information we had. But most US states maintained a complete ban on gambling for most of their existence, and those bans worked pretty well.

cma 11y ago
The alcohol ban might have worked prior to automobiles. Maybe the gambling ban only worked prior to the internet, at least until there was federal and not state level action on going after online gambling.

droopyEyelids 11y ago

We still don't culturally embrace alcohol as a good thing. You don't see the states advertising vodka like they advertise the lottery. There is a lot of room between making something illegal, and promoting it to take advantage of people.

pekk 11y ago
The lottery is a form of gambling, but is also pretty different from casinos.
CONTRARlAN 11y ago
> We still don't culturally embrace alcohol as a good thing. You don't see the states advertising vodka like they advertise the lottery. I'm having a hard time with this. Something doesn't have to be endorsed by the state to be culturally embraced, which seems to be what I'm understanding when I view both sentences in tandem. Apologies if I'm getting that wrong. But if I view the first sentence in isolation: > We still don't culturally embrace alcohol as a good thing. I'm still baffled, but for different reasons. Alcohol is endorsed, celebrated, and embraced from top to bottom in nearly all corners of contemporary society. It's served nearly everywhere, consuming it is the cultural norm, not consuming it is viewed with suspicion, it's lauded as being crucial to one's enjoyment of an evening, social gathering, sporting event, flight, etc. Entire business models exist that would otherwise be unprofitable if not for alcohol sales. Many establishments are essentially loss leaders but for their alcohol sales (which are supposedly tangential to their primary business offering). 2.5 million deaths are alcohol-related every year. It's a factor in 40% of all violent crimes. 24% of incidents involving police have alcohol as a factor. And yet, sit around at dinner with a group of guys and order a soft drink, and it's often viewed as abnormal behavior. Why? Because, for reasons passing understanding, we culturally embrace alcohol as a good thing.

jackpirate 11y ago

According to that article, 4% of Americans drink 10+ drinks per day. I find that very hard to believe, and it's certainly something that requires credible sources.

patio11 11y ago
You're welcome to download the data set from the National Epidemiologic Survey on Alcohol and Related Conditions if you want to check the math. The NIH makes it publicly available.
- djt 11y ago
  Also keep in mind that it is 10 standard drinks, so a bottle of wine quarter bottle of scotch. It goes to show how much alcoholics hide their drinking
  - runamok 11y ago
    A bottle of wine is 5 x 5 ounce servings. 750 ml is 25.4 fluid ounces. Where do you get 10 from?
  - dragonwriter 11y ago
    > Also keep in mind that it is 10 standard drinks, so a bottle of wine quarter bottle of scotch 10 standard drinks is two bottles of wine, and 3/5 of a bottle of scotch. (Both using standard, 750 milliliter bottles.)
- mechanical_fish 11y ago
  In tandem with looking up the data, I also recommend broadening your social circle by meeting a former alcoholic or two. They're not hard to find. Alternatively, you can read their memoirs, which are even easier to find. I don't recommend the alternative of seeing some of your friends or relatives drink themselves to death, even as their own closest friends fail to see what's going on. But you don't always have a choice. Sometimes the anecdotes find you. Anecdotes aren't data, but they are what human beings are designed to believe. If you have trouble envisioning evident facts that are backed by piles of data, perhaps you need to collect a wider range of anecdotes.