3 ms·

So where are we today?

by aerodog 11y ago

hga 11y ago
Looks like here is a place to start: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Statistics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Statistics
bane 11y ago
WP and the Wikimedia foundation continue to ignore their internal problems and instead focus on gathering data that shows what everybody already knows, then trying to "solve" it with irrelevant projects that don't even begin to nip at the edges of the issue. We're years in on the issue and WP keeps asking like they don't have any idea what's wrong, even though likely millions of words have been bled on the topic. The only people who don't seem to understand it is WP themselves and the only conclusion one can reach is that they're doing it on purpose.
- shalmanese 11y ago
  The Wikimedia foundation is well aware of the problem and considers it their top priority. However, it's not clear exactly what a solution would be. The "irrelevant projects" are their best attempt at fixing the issues. Complicating the fact is that the relationship between the Wikimedia foundation and Wikipedia is not like that of a conventional private company to a product they've built. The WMF intentionally delegates large parts of the governance of Wikipedia to the community and cannot autocratically come in and force change without community buy in. This is a philosophical position that was established a long time ago and one which the WMF supports, even if it makes the process of change harder.
  - bane 11y ago
    > However, it's not clear exactly what a solution would be. The issue or course is that they don't publicly acknowledge the issue. They'll produce hundreds of pages of reports on the issue and end it with a "what could the problem be?" with shoulders shrugged. Acknowledging the problem is the first step towards finding the solution. Here's me almost 1500 days ago (4 YEARS!) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2598491 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2598491 Here's the recent thing that was going on https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2215168 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2215168 Here's an article on it https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3272466 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3272466 And another https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6612638 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6612638 This discussion goes back to 2011 at least, and WP just can't seem to admit that there's a problem.
    - shalmanese 11y ago
      All I can say is that I offered to do some informal product consulting with the WMF a few years ago and I walked into the building thinking I knew what the issues were and what obvious steps were required to fix them and I walked out being as equally confused and frustrated as the people there.

So where are we today?

by aerodog 11y ago

So where are we today?

hga 11y ago

Looks like here is a place to start: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Statistics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Statistics

bane 11y ago

WP and the Wikimedia foundation continue to ignore their internal problems and instead focus on gathering data that shows what everybody already knows, then trying to "solve" it with irrelevant projects that don't even begin to nip at the edges of the issue. We're years in on the issue and WP keeps asking like they don't have any idea what's wrong, even though likely millions of words have been bled on the topic. The only people who don't seem to understand it is WP themselves and the only conclusion one can reach is that they're doing it on purpose.

shalmanese 11y ago
The Wikimedia foundation is well aware of the problem and considers it their top priority. However, it's not clear exactly what a solution would be. The "irrelevant projects" are their best attempt at fixing the issues. Complicating the fact is that the relationship between the Wikimedia foundation and Wikipedia is not like that of a conventional private company to a product they've built. The WMF intentionally delegates large parts of the governance of Wikipedia to the community and cannot autocratically come in and force change without community buy in. This is a philosophical position that was established a long time ago and one which the WMF supports, even if it makes the process of change harder.
- bane 11y ago
  > However, it's not clear exactly what a solution would be. The issue or course is that they don't publicly acknowledge the issue. They'll produce hundreds of pages of reports on the issue and end it with a "what could the problem be?" with shoulders shrugged. Acknowledging the problem is the first step towards finding the solution. Here's me almost 1500 days ago (4 YEARS!) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2598491 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2598491 Here's the recent thing that was going on https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2215168 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2215168 Here's an article on it https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3272466 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3272466 And another https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6612638 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6612638 This discussion goes back to 2011 at least, and WP just can't seem to admit that there's a problem.
  - shalmanese 11y ago
    All I can say is that I offered to do some informal product consulting with the WMF a few years ago and I walked into the building thinking I knew what the issues were and what obvious steps were required to fix them and I walked out being as equally confused and frustrated as the people there.