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Im always suspicious of stuff like this about musical instruments (mostly inherited from my brother who is a successful musician and says a lot of it is bunk).

by ErrantX 17y ago

Im always suspicious of stuff like this about musical instruments (mostly inherited from my brother who is a successful musician and says a lot of it is bunk). There is another famous one with Violins (I read it in a magazine so no online link, sorry) where they put various old and well respected violins up against a couple of cheap new ones (and a fancy new one that supposedly uses fungus to get an amazing sound) and asked some experts to pick them out in a double blind test - with the results coming out pretty randomly. My brother's main area is brass instruments (though he has picked up the violin in the past) and there is all sorts of similar ideas there: I think the main one is that the brass "adapts" to the player and no one else can lay an instrument as well as it's owner. My brother is convinced this is a bit of psychology mixed with the fact that the player is used to their instrument (which of course varies slightly from the next). He says when you meet trumpet players at the top of their game who can pick up a brand new instrument and play it just as well after a few minutes practice it throws things into perspective :)

primo_violino 17y ago
brass instruments are a different game. String instruments apparently get better with age. Brass instruments get worse with age. Lifespan of a pro brass instrument is less than a decade - the sound really does drop off. As the sound drops off (for whatever reason), the player adapts to it, since it's not an even drop off across the frequency range. This is reflected in the resale value of the instruments. Most pros replace their brass every 3-5 years, if not less. Picking up a brand new brass instrument for a top player and playing it perfectly is totally logical. The big surprise would be for the trumpeter to pick up an old instrument and play it just as well...
- ErrantX 17y ago
  Im told by several pro's this is an old wives tale. Apparently a brass instrument does change tone over time because of the corrosion but it is something a good player can adapt to with, say, an hour or 2 practice (my Brother owns a very old Cornet which is considered quite valuable and an extremely good instrument - his colleagues often ask to borrow it for concerts etc.) It's also been well tested that string instruments don't appear to get better with age :) at least not subjectively to expert ears (in various double blind tests).
  - RiderOfGiraffes 17y ago
    Just so I'm clear about this, it appears that you believe several old pros about brass instruments, but you don't believe several old pros about violins going to sleep. Is that right?
    - ErrantX 17y ago
      A better way to put it is I've heard both sides of the story; and one strikes me as more logical :) I'm sure there are lots of links to habit, the "feeling" of the instrument and some affects of ageing. But I don't see a lot of scientific evidence to show a real change in the instrument. I dont consider that a bad thing: who cares if it s physical or psychological - it's all part of being a great musician and people enjoying it! Every subject has it's mythology.
      - wglb 17y ago
        I think you are off base. My daughter has played cello for quite a few years. She reports that it needs to be played regularly or the sound changes. The music store where she bought this invites violin and cello players to come and play instruments in storage to keep them in shape. This is not bunk.
  - primo_violino 17y ago
    that cornet is the exception, and helps illustrate my point - it's about a new instrument being immediately playable, and older ones needing to be 'learnt'. > It's also been well tested that string instruments don't appear to get better with age :) at least not subjectively to expert ears (in various double blind tests). which is why my original post says 'apparently'. They get better in terms of antique value, and some differences will happen to the instrument over time - which may make it better, and may make it worse. the antique value is something that really p's me off - the sound quality seems to have no impact on price, while antique value has loads. Where are these tests anyway? blind tests are always a bit of a waste of time - you get a player to play 5 different instruments - the one that most closely matches the playing 'profile' of their normal instrument is the one that wins... (assuming they use their normal bow, and set of strings, and that the sound post is set up correctly for their playing...)
- durin42 17y ago
  Most professional brass players I know personally try and hang onto an instrument for a decade or more. I know people in multiple major orchestras, and they all have instruments they love and won't part with, rather than cycling through hardware often.

by ErrantX 17y ago

primo_violino 17y ago

brass instruments are a different game. String instruments apparently get better with age. Brass instruments get worse with age. Lifespan of a pro brass instrument is less than a decade - the sound really does drop off. As the sound drops off (for whatever reason), the player adapts to it, since it's not an even drop off across the frequency range. This is reflected in the resale value of the instruments. Most pros replace their brass every 3-5 years, if not less. Picking up a brand new brass instrument for a top player and playing it perfectly is totally logical. The big surprise would be for the trumpeter to pick up an old instrument and play it just as well...

ErrantX 17y ago
Im told by several pro's this is an old wives tale. Apparently a brass instrument does change tone over time because of the corrosion but it is something a good player can adapt to with, say, an hour or 2 practice (my Brother owns a very old Cornet which is considered quite valuable and an extremely good instrument - his colleagues often ask to borrow it for concerts etc.) It's also been well tested that string instruments don't appear to get better with age :) at least not subjectively to expert ears (in various double blind tests).
- RiderOfGiraffes 17y ago
  Just so I'm clear about this, it appears that you believe several old pros about brass instruments, but you don't believe several old pros about violins going to sleep. Is that right?
  - ErrantX 17y ago
    A better way to put it is I've heard both sides of the story; and one strikes me as more logical :) I'm sure there are lots of links to habit, the "feeling" of the instrument and some affects of ageing. But I don't see a lot of scientific evidence to show a real change in the instrument. I dont consider that a bad thing: who cares if it s physical or psychological - it's all part of being a great musician and people enjoying it! Every subject has it's mythology.
    - wglb 17y ago
      I think you are off base. My daughter has played cello for quite a few years. She reports that it needs to be played regularly or the sound changes. The music store where she bought this invites violin and cello players to come and play instruments in storage to keep them in shape. This is not bunk.
- primo_violino 17y ago
  that cornet is the exception, and helps illustrate my point - it's about a new instrument being immediately playable, and older ones needing to be 'learnt'. > It's also been well tested that string instruments don't appear to get better with age :) at least not subjectively to expert ears (in various double blind tests). which is why my original post says 'apparently'. They get better in terms of antique value, and some differences will happen to the instrument over time - which may make it better, and may make it worse. the antique value is something that really p's me off - the sound quality seems to have no impact on price, while antique value has loads. Where are these tests anyway? blind tests are always a bit of a waste of time - you get a player to play 5 different instruments - the one that most closely matches the playing 'profile' of their normal instrument is the one that wins... (assuming they use their normal bow, and set of strings, and that the sound post is set up correctly for their playing...)
durin42 17y ago
Most professional brass players I know personally try and hang onto an instrument for a decade or more. I know people in multiple major orchestras, and they all have instruments they love and won't part with, rather than cycling through hardware often.