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I'm not even going to post this with my real account. I wonder if we'll even be able to have a discussion about this without me getting downvoted into oblivion.
by octottoman 11y ago
I'm not even going to post this with my real account. I wonder if we'll even be able to have a discussion about this without me getting downvoted into oblivion.
Asians have the highest GPAs and SAT scores, followed by whites, followed by Hispanics, followed by blacks. As such, blacks are given the benefit of the doubt, where as Asians are judged more harshly.
Statistically, these groups have differing average IQs in the same order that I just described, with Asians at the top (actually Ashkenazi Jews at the top, followed by Asians) and blacks, sadly, at the bottom. This isn't to say a black individual can't have a high IQ or an Asian individual can't have a low IQ, just that on average they cluster around certain numbers, so a black with genius-level IQ is rarer than an Asian one.
Whether or not you believe IQ measures intelligence accurately or comprehensively, the fact is that it correlates strongly with academic performance and SAT scores. I also will concede that "race" has questionable biological validity, and it gets really fuzzy when one is the offspring of one or more "mixed-race" parents". Still, race/IQ statistics in all of their generalities are a source of existential depression for me. Most of the data is touted boldly by people I despise and used to bolster viewpoints that I find deplorable, but there seems to be at least some truth to it.
The idea of discriminating based on one's race seems unfair if we lived in a world where literally everyone has the same capacity to succeed but merely chooses not to. But what if that's not the case? If Asians generally can attain high test scores and high GPAs due to an innate advantage, could that mean the admissions standards should be stricter for them and more lax for other groups? The alternative is that certain groups completely dominate academia with ease, while other groups are barely represented at all -- which is probably already the case to a large extent.
I don't think there are any easy answers. Trouble arises with an Asian individual with a relatively "average" IQ faces the admissions process, and trouble arises because the black individuals who manage to get in have above-average IQs. Still, I support the idea of affirmative action for the reasons that I previously described.
Asians might have a harder time while other groups get a bit of a head start, but if you have a high IQ you will ultimately have the capacity to carve out a high-paying career in ways that someone with a relatively lower IQ never will.
- mrowland 11y agoThere's evidence[1] that there's no difference in intelligence between races at a very young age, and that tested differences only emerge later. This suggests that the IQ differences seen later are a result of societal factors and not something innate. 1: http://scholar.harvard.edu/files/fryer/files/testing_for_racial_differences_in_the_mental_ability_of_young_children.pdf http://scholar.harvard.edu/files/fryer/files/testing_for_rac...
- octottoman 11y agoThat's interesting; I didn't know that. I should like to read that document in its entirety.
- throwawayaway 11y agoScience's Last Taboo c4 docmentary https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ao8W2tPujeE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ao8W2tPujeE (someone with the opposing viewpoint has cunningly put a video up with the exact same name on youtube.)
- throwawayaway 11y agosex and intelligence and race and intelligence have great wikipedia pages, with cite notes. they are easy to get lost in. some topics can't be debated easily. in my own experience the people who tend to do well, work hard. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_intelligence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_intelligence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_differences_in_intelligence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_differences_in_intelligenc...
- thrcp971 11y agoOf course you aren't going to post this with your real name. This post is full of racist rhetoric. You suggest that blacks are innately inferior to Asians in terms of intelligence, which is nonsense. (Note the post below about IQ issues. There is considerably more research on this point.) Moreover, many blacks admitted to Ivy League schools aren't black Americans at all--they are Africans, and their scores are on par with Asian students. People like the "Tiger Mom" acknowledge this openly. But educational institutions lump all blacks into the same statistical category--in part because as soon as it becomes evident that some black Americans are getting left behind in favor of Africans, the institutions will have to deal with various groups on that issue. Ultimately, you fail to differentiate between black students, assuming they are all of one type--and yet you tout your intelligence! Besides, it's hardly surprising that African students fare better in education than Black Americans. Most African students are from an environment where they are viewed as leaders, as equals, and not as inferiors. They see themselves reflected positively for most of their lives. Contrast that with how Black Americans are treated, and it's no surprise that Africans fare better. Not to mention that among black Americans at Ivy League schools, many get their admission boost from legacy admissions and their family's wealth--they don't even need to benefit affirmative action. Grades just okay but Dad gives enough money to the school? Take a trip to Europe for a year, write about it and come back next year--that's for wealthy kids, regardless of race. And, finally, just because any racial group has an "average" GPA or LSAT score, doesn't mean that every student in the group does. Drop the pretense: some Asians and whites with lower test scores benefit from affirmative action just like other minorities.