4 ms·

I'm waiting for camp 14 street map : http://www.amazon.com/Escape-Camp-14-Remarkable-Odyssey/dp/0143122916 http://www.amazon.com/Escape-Camp-14-Remarkable-Odyss

by mfo 11y ago

I'm waiting for camp 14 street map : http://www.amazon.com/Escape-Camp-14-Remarkable-Odyssey/dp/0143122916 http://www.amazon.com/Escape-Camp-14-Remarkable-Odyssey/dp/0... This is real north korea :-)

RankingMember 11y ago
That book was a huge eye-opener to me. It's practically a Nazi-level concentration camp situation, but because they're only doing it to their own people and one of their allies is China, the world does nothing.
- steve19 11y ago
  no, because they have a shit ton of artillery aimed at Seoul, tunnels under the dmz that can be packed with explosives, possibly nukes (which even if fizzlers could do a lot of damage)... and China. there are in the perfect situation to do evil and get away with it. Even funding a insurgency would be difficult. the population is so downtrodden they must have forgotten what freedom is (think 1984). the penalty for disobedience is your entire family in a concentration camp.
  - blakeja 11y ago
    Your entire family to the 8th or 9th generation.
  - gscott 11y ago
    I worked with one lady who had a boyfriend in the U.S military stationed in South Korea. Turns out NK often sends over mortars, every time her boyfriend would have to end the conversation. Something which we never hear about.
- criley2 11y ago
  "The world does nothing" The world would have watched Hitler in peace too, had he not decided to blast through Belgium into Paris. After that the world watched China end the lives of tens of millions (as many as, or more than the entire NK population) during the Cultural Revolution. The world watches as Boko Haram and countless other organizations murder and rape their way across Africa. The world watches as Qatar puts on the most impressively visible modern example of slavery, and what does the world do? Remain excited with the sport and the event. The world watches as organized crime and cartels wage paramilitary war against the Mexican people, dropping busloads of kids into mass graves. The world watches as political islamic extremists take advantage of crumbling governments in Syria and Iraq to murder, steal, kidnap, and destroy across the region. Point is: the world watches a lot of things, and when someone like the US steps in, they are lambasted as no greater than the evil we expect them be willing to fight. North Korea remains unmolested purely because it does not molest other countries. If they do, China will aggressively end that behavior or implicitly allow the US to so through inaction.
  - sim9 11y ago
    ohh wow, I never knew the US was such a holy nation. Also the world just watches when it drops nuclear bombs on other countries.
    - scrollaway 11y ago
      Nowhere did GP imply anything like this.
  - totemizer 11y ago
    Generally speaking I agree with you. However when you get to the "someone like the US steps in", I would like to make a few notes. 1. there is no other nation "like the US" but USA. Not even China or Russia have the kind of global presence and military power. Not saying that the US would be able to win a war against these nations, just pointing out that how you phrased it like the US taking steps is like any other nations taking steps, and this is simply not true. 2. Another issue with the US stepping in, is that from experience when the US steps in, that doesn't end well: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covert_United_States_foreign_regime_change_actions http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covert_United_States_foreign_re... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Menu http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Menu and of course, https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=315&v=0ypIwK6OlFc https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=315&v=0ypIwK6OlFc I do not in any circumstances blame any leader personally for these things, and I definitely do not associate the actions of the US with the citizens of the US, and I also know that even if the US would've been the most peaceful, least aggressive superpower, some other nation might've done worse things. But I think that the world would be a much better place if the US would've "stepped in" in different ways, or even if they would've not done anything of what in the links are mentioned. (and of course I only scratched the surface here)
- crdoconnor 11y ago
  "the world does nothing." What would you have the world do? Invade like the US did to Iraq, causing a million deaths?
  - RankingMember 11y ago
    It's actually a bit silly of me to refer to "the world" as though it's one coherent, unified entity. The U.N. is closer to what I was imagining, but regardless, what I'd like to see is a strong push for North Korea to open it's borders in exchange for a lightening of sanctions. The NK leadership's power is retained almost entirely through keeping people in the dark. On a wackier, cantankerous note, I also envision a scheme of dropping solar-charged epaper tablets and blasting the entire country with free WiFi to make locking down knowledge about the outside world impossible. I'm firmly against outright military intervention (no drones either).
    - netrus 11y ago
      If only stuff were as easy (regarding your epaper-plan). Propaganda has been there since ages. It does not work well on foreign nations, because people are suspicious of everything their enemies say. WWII would not have changed a bit if all Germans had known of Auschwitz (many did - people got news from the BBC after all!). Kim Jong Un has lived in Europe, and apparently, he did not like what he saw. People's minds are very complicated.
    - mhurron 11y ago
      > what I'd like to see is a strong push for North Korea to open it's borders in exchange for a lightening of sanctions. What would the value be to the NK leadership to do that? Worrying about the well being of the population? I think they've made it pretty clear that's not really high on the list of priorities. As you said, they stay in power by keeping people in the dark. No one voluntarily gives up power. Also, you might find the Frontline story on North Korea interesting. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/secret-state-of-north-korea/ http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/secret-state-of-nort...
    - crdoconnor 11y ago

by mfo 11y ago

I'm waiting for camp 14 street map : http://www.amazon.com/Escape-Camp-14-Remarkable-Odyssey/dp/0143122916 http://www.amazon.com/Escape-Camp-14-Remarkable-Odyssey/dp/0... This is real north korea :-)

RankingMember 11y ago

That book was a huge eye-opener to me. It's practically a Nazi-level concentration camp situation, but because they're only doing it to their own people and one of their allies is China, the world does nothing.

steve19 11y ago
no, because they have a shit ton of artillery aimed at Seoul, tunnels under the dmz that can be packed with explosives, possibly nukes (which even if fizzlers could do a lot of damage)... and China. there are in the perfect situation to do evil and get away with it. Even funding a insurgency would be difficult. the population is so downtrodden they must have forgotten what freedom is (think 1984). the penalty for disobedience is your entire family in a concentration camp.
- blakeja 11y ago
  Your entire family to the 8th or 9th generation.
- gscott 11y ago
  I worked with one lady who had a boyfriend in the U.S military stationed in South Korea. Turns out NK often sends over mortars, every time her boyfriend would have to end the conversation. Something which we never hear about.
criley2 11y ago
"The world does nothing" The world would have watched Hitler in peace too, had he not decided to blast through Belgium into Paris. After that the world watched China end the lives of tens of millions (as many as, or more than the entire NK population) during the Cultural Revolution. The world watches as Boko Haram and countless other organizations murder and rape their way across Africa. The world watches as Qatar puts on the most impressively visible modern example of slavery, and what does the world do? Remain excited with the sport and the event. The world watches as organized crime and cartels wage paramilitary war against the Mexican people, dropping busloads of kids into mass graves. The world watches as political islamic extremists take advantage of crumbling governments in Syria and Iraq to murder, steal, kidnap, and destroy across the region. Point is: the world watches a lot of things, and when someone like the US steps in, they are lambasted as no greater than the evil we expect them be willing to fight. North Korea remains unmolested purely because it does not molest other countries. If they do, China will aggressively end that behavior or implicitly allow the US to so through inaction.
- sim9 11y ago
  ohh wow, I never knew the US was such a holy nation. Also the world just watches when it drops nuclear bombs on other countries.
  - scrollaway 11y ago
    Nowhere did GP imply anything like this.
- totemizer 11y ago
  Generally speaking I agree with you. However when you get to the "someone like the US steps in", I would like to make a few notes. 1. there is no other nation "like the US" but USA. Not even China or Russia have the kind of global presence and military power. Not saying that the US would be able to win a war against these nations, just pointing out that how you phrased it like the US taking steps is like any other nations taking steps, and this is simply not true. 2. Another issue with the US stepping in, is that from experience when the US steps in, that doesn't end well: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covert_United_States_foreign_regime_change_actions http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covert_United_States_foreign_re... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Menu http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Menu and of course, https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=315&v=0ypIwK6OlFc https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=315&v=0ypIwK6OlFc I do not in any circumstances blame any leader personally for these things, and I definitely do not associate the actions of the US with the citizens of the US, and I also know that even if the US would've been the most peaceful, least aggressive superpower, some other nation might've done worse things. But I think that the world would be a much better place if the US would've "stepped in" in different ways, or even if they would've not done anything of what in the links are mentioned. (and of course I only scratched the surface here)
crdoconnor 11y ago
"the world does nothing." What would you have the world do? Invade like the US did to Iraq, causing a million deaths?
- RankingMember 11y ago
  It's actually a bit silly of me to refer to "the world" as though it's one coherent, unified entity. The U.N. is closer to what I was imagining, but regardless, what I'd like to see is a strong push for North Korea to open it's borders in exchange for a lightening of sanctions. The NK leadership's power is retained almost entirely through keeping people in the dark. On a wackier, cantankerous note, I also envision a scheme of dropping solar-charged epaper tablets and blasting the entire country with free WiFi to make locking down knowledge about the outside world impossible. I'm firmly against outright military intervention (no drones either).
  - netrus 11y ago
    If only stuff were as easy (regarding your epaper-plan). Propaganda has been there since ages. It does not work well on foreign nations, because people are suspicious of everything their enemies say. WWII would not have changed a bit if all Germans had known of Auschwitz (many did - people got news from the BBC after all!). Kim Jong Un has lived in Europe, and apparently, he did not like what he saw. People's minds are very complicated.
  - mhurron 11y ago
    > what I'd like to see is a strong push for North Korea to open it's borders in exchange for a lightening of sanctions. What would the value be to the NK leadership to do that? Worrying about the well being of the population? I think they've made it pretty clear that's not really high on the list of priorities. As you said, they stay in power by keeping people in the dark. No one voluntarily gives up power. Also, you might find the Frontline story on North Korea interesting. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/secret-state-of-north-korea/ http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/secret-state-of-nort...
  - crdoconnor 11y ago