4 ms·

From what was shown it is really cool. Not because of the language itself, but for integration with data (from W|A?). It's like a CSI SQL. Also, Wolfram is all

From what was shown it is really cool. Not because of the language itself, but for integration with data (from W|A?). It's like a CSI SQL. Also, Wolfram is all nice for how he did this all by himself and how he let us use big tower of ideas and technology he built, also by himself, over the past 40 years. edit: on a related note, how does it compare with IPython/Jupyter?

fl0wenol 11y ago
It's not like the Wolfram Language examples you see are independent of the Wolfram KnowledgeBase or their other cloud services, and you have to leverage it from some deployed product (like Mathematica) you're paying for. This detail is sort of glossed over. You can do some of it from free-to-use services like Alpha. Also, good god does he love to take credit. There's whole teams of people who work on the underlying technology that powers it, although he does credit the guys who come up with algorithms that they use, especially when documenting them, but you have to dig for that... and then there's the people that gather, purchase and curate data sets that power the Knowledge Base, and even the SMP engine that became Mathematica was a group effort... Which is why I'll never pay for a Wolfram Research product, as interesting as or powerful as it could be. All it does it serve to support the legacy of an egomaniac.
- ForHackernews 11y ago
  It's super weird to me how Hackernews is extremely skeptical of Stephen Wolfram's god-genius persona, while simultaneously being generally very receptive to Elon Musk's similarly ginormous ego-tripping.
  - fl0wenol 11y ago
    We do? He's certainly a force of personality, but he's more of an ideas and money guy. A backer. Eberhard was the guy who actually thought sporty electric cars would work, took a shot, and was right. It's too bad he got forced out.
    - ForHackernews 11y ago
      Maybe not you, personally, but there's plenty of that around here: "the man is pure inspiration. 10 years ago, i was asked who i admired, and couldn't think of a single answer. Maybe that's sad on my part, but when asked now, he's at the top of my list." https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9546353 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9546353 It does seem like maybe the pendulum is finally swinging back a bit, though.
  - kemayo 11y ago
    They ego-trip in different ways. [EDIT: With the implication here being that Musk's variety is far more palatable to us.] Wolfram talks about how personally incredible he is, and how his work is revolutionary, and how he's this Great Mind who's laboring away on some perfect thing. Musk talks about how incredible his companies are, and how they'll change the world, without ascribing all progress to himself personally. It seems like to be equivalent, Musk would have to stand up on a stage and give a talk about he personally invented rockets, or at least how he's doing great things based on his own theories about rockets.
  - vijayr 11y ago
    Not sure about Elon Musk, but Apple comes across this way. They constantly talk about how they "reinvented" everything, "re-imagined" everything, "went back to the drawing board" etc while presenting new products. Kinda off-putting. But to be fair these people/companies do amazing work, so I guess some amount of ego is to be expected. Top athletes, musicians and pretty much top people from most industries have huge egos. Comes with the territory, I suppose.
    - Leszek 11y ago
      At least "reinvented" acknowledges that it was previously invented, Wolfram tends to imply that his is the first system to do the things he describes.
  - Keyframe 11y ago
    That's what I never understood either. I understand the concept of two interesting and inspiring stories behind companies he runs (spaceX especially so) though. However, the image I have in my mind is that Tesla is still a Segway of cars, toys for rich people and SpaceX is good at extracting government money (both companies are good at it). I will have to re-think my thinking if SpaceX gets to Mars before China or NASA does.
  - lambdaelite 11y ago
    Ditto. I respect Musk as a skilled and successful engineering manager, but remain amazed by how much credit he's given for things that are clearly the product of some luck and a hugely talented team. I think a mark of a good manager is someone who will go out of their way to correctly credit their team. Likewise, Wolfram has published some interesting papers on CA and Mathematica is great for it's problem domains, but ever since NKS I think he's forgotten the maxim cautioning to not get high on one's own supply. For those who haven't seen it yet, this letter from Richard Feynman to Wolfram might be interesting: http://www.lettersofnote.com/2010/06/you-dont-understand-ordinary-people.html http://www.lettersofnote.com/2010/06/you-dont-understand-ord...
    - eruditely 11y ago
      I fail to see what he has done wrong, he has clearly moved on from NKS, it is just his critics that have not. He seems to have contributed a valued product that is used by many and is strictly an advantage in many domains.
westoncb 11y ago
Wait, what? "...how he let us use big tower of ideas and technology he built, also by himself..." —this is very far from the truth: there are a lot of people working on these things.

fl0wenol 11y ago

It's not like the Wolfram Language examples you see are independent of the Wolfram KnowledgeBase or their other cloud services, and you have to leverage it from some deployed product (like Mathematica) you're paying for. This detail is sort of glossed over. You can do some of it from free-to-use services like Alpha. Also, good god does he love to take credit. There's whole teams of people who work on the underlying technology that powers it, although he does credit the guys who come up with algorithms that they use, especially when documenting them, but you have to dig for that... and then there's the people that gather, purchase and curate data sets that power the Knowledge Base, and even the SMP engine that became Mathematica was a group effort... Which is why I'll never pay for a Wolfram Research product, as interesting as or powerful as it could be. All it does it serve to support the legacy of an egomaniac.

ForHackernews 11y ago
It's super weird to me how Hackernews is extremely skeptical of Stephen Wolfram's god-genius persona, while simultaneously being generally very receptive to Elon Musk's similarly ginormous ego-tripping.
- fl0wenol 11y ago
  We do? He's certainly a force of personality, but he's more of an ideas and money guy. A backer. Eberhard was the guy who actually thought sporty electric cars would work, took a shot, and was right. It's too bad he got forced out.
  - ForHackernews 11y ago
    Maybe not you, personally, but there's plenty of that around here: "the man is pure inspiration. 10 years ago, i was asked who i admired, and couldn't think of a single answer. Maybe that's sad on my part, but when asked now, he's at the top of my list." https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9546353 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9546353 It does seem like maybe the pendulum is finally swinging back a bit, though.
- kemayo 11y ago
  They ego-trip in different ways. [EDIT: With the implication here being that Musk's variety is far more palatable to us.] Wolfram talks about how personally incredible he is, and how his work is revolutionary, and how he's this Great Mind who's laboring away on some perfect thing. Musk talks about how incredible his companies are, and how they'll change the world, without ascribing all progress to himself personally. It seems like to be equivalent, Musk would have to stand up on a stage and give a talk about he personally invented rockets, or at least how he's doing great things based on his own theories about rockets.
- vijayr 11y ago
  Not sure about Elon Musk, but Apple comes across this way. They constantly talk about how they "reinvented" everything, "re-imagined" everything, "went back to the drawing board" etc while presenting new products. Kinda off-putting. But to be fair these people/companies do amazing work, so I guess some amount of ego is to be expected. Top athletes, musicians and pretty much top people from most industries have huge egos. Comes with the territory, I suppose.
  - Leszek 11y ago
    At least "reinvented" acknowledges that it was previously invented, Wolfram tends to imply that his is the first system to do the things he describes.
- Keyframe 11y ago
  That's what I never understood either. I understand the concept of two interesting and inspiring stories behind companies he runs (spaceX especially so) though. However, the image I have in my mind is that Tesla is still a Segway of cars, toys for rich people and SpaceX is good at extracting government money (both companies are good at it). I will have to re-think my thinking if SpaceX gets to Mars before China or NASA does.
- lambdaelite 11y ago
  Ditto. I respect Musk as a skilled and successful engineering manager, but remain amazed by how much credit he's given for things that are clearly the product of some luck and a hugely talented team. I think a mark of a good manager is someone who will go out of their way to correctly credit their team. Likewise, Wolfram has published some interesting papers on CA and Mathematica is great for it's problem domains, but ever since NKS I think he's forgotten the maxim cautioning to not get high on one's own supply. For those who haven't seen it yet, this letter from Richard Feynman to Wolfram might be interesting: http://www.lettersofnote.com/2010/06/you-dont-understand-ordinary-people.html http://www.lettersofnote.com/2010/06/you-dont-understand-ord...
  - eruditely 11y ago
    I fail to see what he has done wrong, he has clearly moved on from NKS, it is just his critics that have not. He seems to have contributed a valued product that is used by many and is strictly an advantage in many domains.

westoncb 11y ago

Wait, what? "...how he let us use big tower of ideas and technology he built, also by himself..." —this is very far from the truth: there are a lot of people working on these things.