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The hole this article doesn't point out, and which has perhaps become more salient to the scientific community over the last few years, with incredible new sea

by themgt 11y ago

The hole this article doesn't point out, and which has perhaps become more salient to the scientific community over the last few years, with incredible new sea ice lows, methane release, the newly understood vulnerability of antarctic and greenland land ice, dramatic weakening of the jet stream and major ocean currents, tar sands/fracking/arctic drilling ... is the prospect that we've dramatically underestimated the sort of feedback loops we may be creating, and the possibility of a rapid runaway climate shift. It is highly likely that the anthropocene has altered the earth's atmosphere and ecosystems more rapidly than at any point perhaps since the comet that took out the dinosaurs. The longer we continue to pump CO2 into the atmosphere, the higher the risk we push the earth over the edge of an abrupt climatic discontinuity.

late2part 11y ago
We also may have dramatically underestimated the risk of asteroid impacts. There are many things out there that might be. We should focus on fact based science to address these issues.
gd1 11y ago
>with incredible new sea ice lows See, this is why no one can take you people seriously. We have incredible new sea ice highs. That is the truth, that is a fact. This is the most sea ice we've seen on Earth since we kept records of it. To lie, spin and cherry-pick is not science.
- deciplex 11y ago
  Can you back this up? As far as I can tell, while there are seasonal variations on sea ice extent that can rebound briefly to "normal" levels, overall sea ice coverage as well as sea ice volume are both in decline. I can't find anything to back up the claim "This is the most sea ice we've seen on Earth since we kept records of it." https://www.skepticalscience.com/Has-Arctic-sea-ice-recovered-intermediate.htm https://www.skepticalscience.com/Has-Arctic-sea-ice-recovere...
  - gd1 11y ago
    I didn't say anything about the Arctic mate. I said the Earth. We have a southern hemisphere too.
  - iak8god 11y ago
    I'm guessing gd1 is just slightly confused by recent reports that Antarctic sea ice extend has reached new highs. I easily imagine how this has been spun in certain circles to give the impression that > We have incredible new sea ice highs. That is the truth, that is a fact. Of course, that's not the case: "Sea ice as a whole is decreasing as expected, but just like with global warming, not every location with sea ice will have a downward trend in ice extent..."[1] [1] "Antarctic Sea Ice Reaches New Record Maximum" http://www.nasa.gov/content/goddard/antarctic-sea-ice-reaches-new-record-maximum http://www.nasa.gov/content/goddard/antarctic-sea-ice-reache...
    - gd1 11y ago
      No, I'm not confused. >Sea ice as a whole is decreasing as expected And no, it isn't. While it is hard to obtain the number from NSIDC, since they've stopped reporting it since it doesn't fit the narrative: "Why don’t you publish a global sea ice extent number? The combined number, while easy to derive from our online posted data, is not useful as an analysis tool or indicator of climate trends." (http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/faq/#combined http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/faq/#combined) ...you can still dig up some charts. Here's a few: https://nsidc.org/sites/nsidc.org/files/images//arc_antarc_1979_2012.png https://nsidc.org/sites/nsidc.org/files/images//arc_antarc_1... Or here: http://www.cato.org/blog/spinning-global-sea-ice http://www.cato.org/blog/spinning-global-sea-ice As it turns out, I have been a bit hyperbolic I'll admit (I was going on memory). But the fact is combined sea ice isn't "decreasing as expected" as you say. It's above average. And the original post I was responding to that claimed "we have incredible sea ice lows" is also nonsense. We don't, we have some loss in the northern hemisphere and gains on a similar scale in the south. > I easily imagine how this has been spun in certain circles If you want to talk about "spinning in certain circles", you might want to ask why we hear endlessly about the decline in arctic ice, how it is seen as confirmation of the global warming hypothesis because it happens to fit the predictions, and yet at the other end of the globe we see large sea ice increases being ignored, dissembled and explained away with theories about ocean currents or wind patterns. That's not science, that's confirmation bias.

by themgt 11y ago

late2part 11y ago

We also may have dramatically underestimated the risk of asteroid impacts. There are many things out there that might be. We should focus on fact based science to address these issues.

gd1 11y ago

>with incredible new sea ice lows See, this is why no one can take you people seriously. We have incredible new sea ice highs. That is the truth, that is a fact. This is the most sea ice we've seen on Earth since we kept records of it. To lie, spin and cherry-pick is not science.

deciplex 11y ago
Can you back this up? As far as I can tell, while there are seasonal variations on sea ice extent that can rebound briefly to "normal" levels, overall sea ice coverage as well as sea ice volume are both in decline. I can't find anything to back up the claim "This is the most sea ice we've seen on Earth since we kept records of it." https://www.skepticalscience.com/Has-Arctic-sea-ice-recovered-intermediate.htm https://www.skepticalscience.com/Has-Arctic-sea-ice-recovere...
- gd1 11y ago
  I didn't say anything about the Arctic mate. I said the Earth. We have a southern hemisphere too.
- iak8god 11y ago
  I'm guessing gd1 is just slightly confused by recent reports that Antarctic sea ice extend has reached new highs. I easily imagine how this has been spun in certain circles to give the impression that > We have incredible new sea ice highs. That is the truth, that is a fact. Of course, that's not the case: "Sea ice as a whole is decreasing as expected, but just like with global warming, not every location with sea ice will have a downward trend in ice extent..."[1] [1] "Antarctic Sea Ice Reaches New Record Maximum" http://www.nasa.gov/content/goddard/antarctic-sea-ice-reaches-new-record-maximum http://www.nasa.gov/content/goddard/antarctic-sea-ice-reache...
  - gd1 11y ago
    No, I'm not confused. >Sea ice as a whole is decreasing as expected And no, it isn't. While it is hard to obtain the number from NSIDC, since they've stopped reporting it since it doesn't fit the narrative: "Why don’t you publish a global sea ice extent number? The combined number, while easy to derive from our online posted data, is not useful as an analysis tool or indicator of climate trends." (http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/faq/#combined http://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/faq/#combined) ...you can still dig up some charts. Here's a few: https://nsidc.org/sites/nsidc.org/files/images//arc_antarc_1979_2012.png https://nsidc.org/sites/nsidc.org/files/images//arc_antarc_1... Or here: http://www.cato.org/blog/spinning-global-sea-ice http://www.cato.org/blog/spinning-global-sea-ice As it turns out, I have been a bit hyperbolic I'll admit (I was going on memory). But the fact is combined sea ice isn't "decreasing as expected" as you say. It's above average. And the original post I was responding to that claimed "we have incredible sea ice lows" is also nonsense. We don't, we have some loss in the northern hemisphere and gains on a similar scale in the south. > I easily imagine how this has been spun in certain circles If you want to talk about "spinning in certain circles", you might want to ask why we hear endlessly about the decline in arctic ice, how it is seen as confirmation of the global warming hypothesis because it happens to fit the predictions, and yet at the other end of the globe we see large sea ice increases being ignored, dissembled and explained away with theories about ocean currents or wind patterns. That's not science, that's confirmation bias.