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> That's the everyday struggle; as developers we can produce so much wealth just by typing at a keyboard. Yet we let ourselves be controlled by people who don't

> That's the everyday struggle; as developers we can produce so much wealth just by typing at a keyboard. Yet we let ourselves be controlled by people who don't know what's what and can't even prove their ideas have any return on investment. That's the everyday misconception. Nobody produces wealth just by typing at a keyboard. Products don't design and sell themselves and it's arrogant to pretend that product people and salespeople aren't a huge part of the value creation process in tech. There are of course developers who are capable of identifying a market opportunity, conceptualizing a product to exploit the opportunity, building the actual product and getting it into market successfully. But if this is common, why are so many talented developers sitting at desks in open office spaces working 10-12 hours a day for low six figure salaries?

omouse 11y ago
> That's the everyday misconception. Nobody produces wealth just by typing at a keyboard. Products don't design and sell themselves and it's arrogant to pretend that product people and salespeople aren't a huge part of the value creation process in tech. Okay you've got a point, it is fairly arrogant; on the other hand, any sort of automation or small script or product is valuable enough that we don't need to be subservient. > But if this is common, why are so many talented developers sitting at desks in open office spaces working 10-12 hours a day for low six figure salaries? That's what I'm asking, why are talented developers allowing themselves to be subservient? That's why I'm wondering why technical managers all the way up to the CTO level are subservient to other departments when it's the product based on technology that determines the success of the company in the end? And actually, your idea is optimistic; I wouldn't mind low six figures for 10-12 hours a day ;) maybe that's why we're so subservient, we look at our peers in other industries and they're making much less cash money and it's easy to see that we're lucky to be working in a nice air-conditioned office working with something we're typically passionate about.
- 7Figures2Commas 11y ago
  > That's what I'm asking, why are talented developers allowing themselves to be subservient? Answer: trying to get a real product to market successfully requires a lot more than small scripts that automate processes. It's not that automation and the like doesn't have value, but ask the average developer to get on the phone and sell something, or to have a meaningful conversation with a customer, and you might start to understand why other people in an organization (salespeople, product managers, etc.) have some sway too. If you simply put a bunch of talented developers in a room, chances are you're not going to end up with a successful business.
  - moron4hire 11y ago
    >> If you simply put a bunch of talented developers in a room, chances are you're not going to end up with a successful business. Quite, yet this seems to be how many first-time startups operate.

omouse 11y ago

> That's the everyday misconception. Nobody produces wealth just by typing at a keyboard. Products don't design and sell themselves and it's arrogant to pretend that product people and salespeople aren't a huge part of the value creation process in tech. Okay you've got a point, it is fairly arrogant; on the other hand, any sort of automation or small script or product is valuable enough that we don't need to be subservient. > But if this is common, why are so many talented developers sitting at desks in open office spaces working 10-12 hours a day for low six figure salaries? That's what I'm asking, why are talented developers allowing themselves to be subservient? That's why I'm wondering why technical managers all the way up to the CTO level are subservient to other departments when it's the product based on technology that determines the success of the company in the end? And actually, your idea is optimistic; I wouldn't mind low six figures for 10-12 hours a day ;) maybe that's why we're so subservient, we look at our peers in other industries and they're making much less cash money and it's easy to see that we're lucky to be working in a nice air-conditioned office working with something we're typically passionate about.

7Figures2Commas 11y ago
> That's what I'm asking, why are talented developers allowing themselves to be subservient? Answer: trying to get a real product to market successfully requires a lot more than small scripts that automate processes. It's not that automation and the like doesn't have value, but ask the average developer to get on the phone and sell something, or to have a meaningful conversation with a customer, and you might start to understand why other people in an organization (salespeople, product managers, etc.) have some sway too. If you simply put a bunch of talented developers in a room, chances are you're not going to end up with a successful business.
- moron4hire 11y ago
  >> If you simply put a bunch of talented developers in a room, chances are you're not going to end up with a successful business. Quite, yet this seems to be how many first-time startups operate.