7 ms·

Why are kids killing themselves in utopia? It's not their utopia. It's their parents' utpoia.

JoeAltmaier 11y ago
Yeah, but what a first-world problem. They're killing themselves because, what, their Starbucks allowance is too small? They're living better lives than 99% of humanity through all of history. And they think they need a way out? Inconceivable. I'd rather think its some suicide cult.
- sp332 11y ago
  You're thinking in terms of "stuff". If you have enough "stuff" you should be happy and not commit suicide. But it's not about stuff, it's about constantly being told that you're a failure. Or constantly being made terrified of failure, even if you're not failing at this particular moment.
  - emp_zealoth 11y ago
    You are goddamn right. That's how i feel - I am in a melee with depression and this is one of the core problems. Constant fear of failure, frustration - it often makes me disengage, stop caring, which in turn makes it all worse, since the real failures arrive. If there isn't anyone for those people to help, only to knock them down more (LOOK AT ALL THE STUFF YOU WERE GIVEN! WHY ARE YOU A FAILURE! GO STUDY! LOOK AT hypercompetitive peer WHY CANT YOU BE LIKE HIM)
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- dragonwriter 11y ago
  > They're killing themselves because, what, their Starbucks allowance is too small? If we're going to use simplifications of this cartoonish level, a more accurate (but still uselessly simplified) one probably would be "because they are surrounded by people for who think they should be happy because of the size of their Starbucks allowance". > They're living better lives than 99% of humanity through all of history. From the perspective of people who think that quality of life is identical to material riches; but while those things might be generally correlated, they aren't the same thing, and its quite possible to have low quality of life with plenty of material riches. And the fact that lots of people fail to recognize that exacerbates the problems of people who experience low quality of life while having material riches.
  - a8da6b0c91d 11y ago
    “It was not their irritating assumption of equality that annoyed Nicholai so much as their cultural confusions. The Americans seemed to confuse standard of living with quality of life, equal opportunity with institutionalized mediocrity, bravery with courage, machismo with manhood, liberty with freedom, wordiness with articulation, fun with pleasure - in short, all of the misconceptions common to those who assume that justice implies equality for all, rather than equality for equals.” ― Trevanian, Shibumi
  - JoeAltmaier 11y ago
    Quality of Life is a first-world invention. The rest of the world is happy with earning a living.
    - dragonwriter 11y ago
      I don't see any evidence that seeing a distribution between wealth and quality of life is unique to the first world.
    - eli_gottlieb 11y ago
      No, the rest of the world is happy with earning a living, having their health, and keeping themselves surrounded by family and friends. Weirdly enough, most of the world takes those last two items (family and friends) for granted, while Americans tend to throw away the last three (health, family, friends) for the sake of careerism.
- emp_zealoth 11y ago
  As a person that nearly did kill himself, while attending a prime uni in my country, living a quite affluent student life (shared apartment with only one other locator, own room, enough money to not worry about it at all, motorcycle trips during weekend, etc) i have to disagree. I became heavily disillusioned with uni - often the top ones aren't actually the best at teaching - they just get hypercompetitive due to overabundance of candidates and the staff can just be shoddy, getting results just by having unreasonable tests and test rules (some of them used to do sudden death style test - they just drone and meander offtopic during the semester, never actually covering the material, then just give an exam that has problems only tangential to the covered material. Which you can't resit. Gotta take the class again) Then your parents are pounding on you, because you are a FAILURE. And to add insult to injury they go about telling how great their school years were and how it's going to suck when you eventually finish. You are stuck with hypercompetitive peers, in often hostile surroundings (physical agression is the easy one) A lot of my friends are feeling lost. I feel lost. I still have depression - switched unis, i try to get through, do extra stuff. But the nagging feeling of inadequacy is still there Sorry for incoherence, but that post riled me a bit
- bashinator 11y ago
  > They're killing themselves because, what, their Starbucks allowance is too small? This statement is profoundly lacking in empathy, and belies not having read the article or paid any attention to what's being discussed.
  - JoeAltmaier 11y ago
    True, guilty as charged. I lived and worked in Palo Alto for years, and saw firsthand how pampered the yuppie offspring were. I have a profound lack of empathy for them, coming from my Iowa farm upbringing where work was a fact of life, where failure meant disaster for the family, so you were damn sure to do it right the first time. I assumed the article has plenty of upper-class empathy for their plight, where they get asked to work and don't know how, so they feel like a failure. Did I get it wrong?
    - bashinator 11y ago
      Yes. The article mostly talks about intense academic and socioeconomic pressures where kids are working > 12-hour days (between school, 4-6 hours of homework, and mandatory extracurricular everything). "Getting a B is a failure."
    - tehwebguy 11y ago
      It's easy to look down your nose at them if you didn't have it "as good" but if you turned out more well adjusted maybe you are the one with a childhood to be envied.
- ScottBurson 11y ago
  Your envy is ugly.
- eli_gottlieb 11y ago
  They're killing themselves because their entire environment conveys to them that either they will be the very best, like no-one ever was, at everything, or they will wind up flipping burgers and living their lives in poverty -- no third options, no alternative lifestyles. Devote your soul to careerism, or wallow in eternal poverty and exploitation. It's utterly dehumanizing.

Yeah, but what a first-world problem. They're killing themselves because, what, their Starbucks allowance is too small? They're living better lives than 99% of humanity through all of history. And they think they need a way out? Inconceivable. I'd rather think its some suicide cult.

sp332 11y ago
You're thinking in terms of "stuff". If you have enough "stuff" you should be happy and not commit suicide. But it's not about stuff, it's about constantly being told that you're a failure. Or constantly being made terrified of failure, even if you're not failing at this particular moment.
- emp_zealoth 11y ago
  You are goddamn right. That's how i feel - I am in a melee with depression and this is one of the core problems. Constant fear of failure, frustration - it often makes me disengage, stop caring, which in turn makes it all worse, since the real failures arrive. If there isn't anyone for those people to help, only to knock them down more (LOOK AT ALL THE STUFF YOU WERE GIVEN! WHY ARE YOU A FAILURE! GO STUDY! LOOK AT hypercompetitive peer WHY CANT YOU BE LIKE HIM)
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
dragonwriter 11y ago
> They're killing themselves because, what, their Starbucks allowance is too small? If we're going to use simplifications of this cartoonish level, a more accurate (but still uselessly simplified) one probably would be "because they are surrounded by people for who think they should be happy because of the size of their Starbucks allowance". > They're living better lives than 99% of humanity through all of history. From the perspective of people who think that quality of life is identical to material riches; but while those things might be generally correlated, they aren't the same thing, and its quite possible to have low quality of life with plenty of material riches. And the fact that lots of people fail to recognize that exacerbates the problems of people who experience low quality of life while having material riches.
- a8da6b0c91d 11y ago
  “It was not their irritating assumption of equality that annoyed Nicholai so much as their cultural confusions. The Americans seemed to confuse standard of living with quality of life, equal opportunity with institutionalized mediocrity, bravery with courage, machismo with manhood, liberty with freedom, wordiness with articulation, fun with pleasure - in short, all of the misconceptions common to those who assume that justice implies equality for all, rather than equality for equals.” ― Trevanian, Shibumi
- JoeAltmaier 11y ago
  Quality of Life is a first-world invention. The rest of the world is happy with earning a living.
  - dragonwriter 11y ago
    I don't see any evidence that seeing a distribution between wealth and quality of life is unique to the first world.
  - eli_gottlieb 11y ago
    No, the rest of the world is happy with earning a living, having their health, and keeping themselves surrounded by family and friends. Weirdly enough, most of the world takes those last two items (family and friends) for granted, while Americans tend to throw away the last three (health, family, friends) for the sake of careerism.
emp_zealoth 11y ago
As a person that nearly did kill himself, while attending a prime uni in my country, living a quite affluent student life (shared apartment with only one other locator, own room, enough money to not worry about it at all, motorcycle trips during weekend, etc) i have to disagree. I became heavily disillusioned with uni - often the top ones aren't actually the best at teaching - they just get hypercompetitive due to overabundance of candidates and the staff can just be shoddy, getting results just by having unreasonable tests and test rules (some of them used to do sudden death style test - they just drone and meander offtopic during the semester, never actually covering the material, then just give an exam that has problems only tangential to the covered material. Which you can't resit. Gotta take the class again) Then your parents are pounding on you, because you are a FAILURE. And to add insult to injury they go about telling how great their school years were and how it's going to suck when you eventually finish. You are stuck with hypercompetitive peers, in often hostile surroundings (physical agression is the easy one) A lot of my friends are feeling lost. I feel lost. I still have depression - switched unis, i try to get through, do extra stuff. But the nagging feeling of inadequacy is still there Sorry for incoherence, but that post riled me a bit
bashinator 11y ago
> They're killing themselves because, what, their Starbucks allowance is too small? This statement is profoundly lacking in empathy, and belies not having read the article or paid any attention to what's being discussed.
- JoeAltmaier 11y ago
  True, guilty as charged. I lived and worked in Palo Alto for years, and saw firsthand how pampered the yuppie offspring were. I have a profound lack of empathy for them, coming from my Iowa farm upbringing where work was a fact of life, where failure meant disaster for the family, so you were damn sure to do it right the first time. I assumed the article has plenty of upper-class empathy for their plight, where they get asked to work and don't know how, so they feel like a failure. Did I get it wrong?
  - bashinator 11y ago
    Yes. The article mostly talks about intense academic and socioeconomic pressures where kids are working > 12-hour days (between school, 4-6 hours of homework, and mandatory extracurricular everything). "Getting a B is a failure."
  - tehwebguy 11y ago
    It's easy to look down your nose at them if you didn't have it "as good" but if you turned out more well adjusted maybe you are the one with a childhood to be envied.
ScottBurson 11y ago
Your envy is ugly.
eli_gottlieb 11y ago
They're killing themselves because their entire environment conveys to them that either they will be the very best, like no-one ever was, at everything, or they will wind up flipping burgers and living their lives in poverty -- no third options, no alternative lifestyles. Devote your soul to careerism, or wallow in eternal poverty and exploitation. It's utterly dehumanizing.