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Here, hazarding a guess: Palo Alto's real estate prices are among the highest in the nation. To afford that kind of real estate you have got to be a pretty bi

Here, hazarding a guess: Palo Alto's real estate prices are among the highest in the nation. To afford that kind of real estate you have got to be a pretty big achiever; you've got to be book smart, emotionally smart, and capable. Unfortunately these traits are not 100% heritable. Yet the expectation is placed on the children to achieve at a level comparable to their parents. Living in an environment with identity-level expectations that are impossible to satisfy is miserable.

runamok 11y ago
I used to live in Irvine which strikes me as very similar to PA (I live Mountain View now). The pressure put on kids there is incredible. And it starts from a very young age. Frankly the kids are way, way sharper than most adults I meet. Even in the bay area.
Florin_Andrei 11y ago
I think you nailed it. I live in the area and I have two kids in middle school. It's incredibly hard to not get sucked into keeping up with the Joneses here.
- runamok 11y ago
  I think that keeps me from wanting to have kids (besides my own innate selfishness and desire to continue investing all my energy into myself/gf vs. little ones). I would want to provide them the luxury of being a silly kid and the ability to explore and just mess around. To be curious without everything being an ulterior motive for succeeding. Because from age 20 or so til 65 you are expected to work your ass off in our culture. On the other hand it feels like a disservice to them since all these crazy alpha parents are driving their kids hard from a young age. So kudos to you for trying to find a balance.
  - dennisgorelik 11y ago
    Why would you want to spoil your kids with luxury?
up_and_up 11y ago
I wonder how many residents in PA came from elsewhere with very different upbringings? I bet most CEO's and execs in SV were not raised in the pressurized environment of SV.
- ZanyProgrammer 11y ago
  No, but a lot of the people in PA aren't CEOs and execs. Upper class, well educated and affluent doesn't mean they are all VCs.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
chralieboy 11y ago
Reminds me of the great line from Jeffrey Eugenides: "There is no evidence against genetic determinism more damning than the children of the rich.”
- gdulli 11y ago
  On the other hand, these suicides threaten the well-known saying that "wealth lasts three generations".
jtzhou 11y ago
Yep. If you slip up -- a series of B's, a summer wasted at a dead-end job, or a break-up with a significant other you sunk tons of time into, and end in a lower-tier area, you'll be effectively "banished" from the community. Your "friends" will look down at you at the 10-year reunion you likely won't attend, and you'll never be able to afford to live in the area you grew up. Banishment, or the threat of it, is one of the most psychologically difficult ordeals. Cut off from friends, community and our surroundings we have become accustomed to. Making a middle-class lifestyle in the Bay Area affordable, with better transit, will go a long way.
- bwy 11y ago
  Your first paragraph sounds so dramatic that I was expecting you to laugh the idea off as a joke at the end, but you didn't. It sounds like you're 100% serious. Is this actually the case? Don't mean to pry, but it sounds a little extreme, and I wonder if this has happened either to you or anyone you know. I grew up in Irvine (mentioned below as similar to PA) and no one I knew would have banished anyone for getting B's or not getting a nice job. We were normal kids.
  - paloaltokid 11y ago
    It's not really an exaggeration of what it's like growing up in Palo Alto. When people marveled at someone's GPA, it would be how far above 4.0 unweighted it was. I think one kid at my school had a 4.8 weighted GPA. Anything below a 3.9 and you were seen as not all that interested in academics.
    - scroy 11y ago
      Not sure how the grades work there, how can unweighted GPA be above 4.0? At my HS, APs were weighted (to 4.5) but there was no way to go above 4.0 without that.
      - deadlast 11y ago
        AP as well as "honors credits" are graded from 2.0-5.0. To achieve this, you take probably 3-4 honors classes freshman year, along with the dreaded dead weight PE and a language if your school doesn't offer an AP language. Then you transition to 2-3 AP classes as well as 2 honors classes (Precal and English) sophomore year, as well as secondary PE. Junior year and senior year you take 5 or 6 APs. Then, if the competition still has not been shaken, there is option of enrolling in supplementary colleges at the local JC after school or over summer (which, nicely, also are measured out of 5.0 on the HS transcript). I enrolled in a mid tier private college instead of a UC due to fear of working harder than I did in high school. I cannot believe how much free time there is. I'll probably transfer up soon. We'll see.
selimthegrim 11y ago
But I mean wtf is this? Is Gunn comparable to TJ or Bronx or Stuyvesant where this is actually making you reasonably competitive at the higher level of entering STEM undergrad institutions? Why have these kids got it in their heads that the Gunn curriculum is so important? I didn't think this was a selective magnet school?
- mathattack 11y ago
  It's not a magnet. Horace Mann is more comparable. Similar socio-economics and pressure, and everyone is up against the same thing. They draw the wealthiest, but not necessarily the smartest. Stuy and Bronx Science are entrance exam based, so those going there are at the top of the heap academically to begin with.
nilkn 11y ago
I worked once with a recent college graduate who grew up in a very wealthy neighborhood. He drove a Ferrari to work. His mom was a supermodel and his dad a hugely successful big-city attorney. They lived in a $2M mansion. (Keep in mind that this was not in CA.) He probably made about $60k. It was clear he was having a hard time grasping the vast gap between the life he was able to afford on his own and the life he had growing up. In under a year, he quit to take a 100% remote job specifically so he could move back in with his parents.
nickbauman 11y ago
I have friends who live in Palo Alto. One works for a company that starts with the letter A the other works for a company that starts with the letter F. The two of them rent a little townhouse for something like $3000 a month. I live in a 4 bedroom home in downtown Minneapolis that I mortgage for less than $800 / mo. It will be paid off in 5 years. While I don't make what they make, I'm within reaching distance and I don't have to break my neck to get it. The financial arithmetic of living in Silicon valley alone doesn't attract me. But the work-yourself-to-death culture is enough to warrant the place a wide berth. My brother died suddenly a few years ago. He was here one moment. Gone the next. So be here, now. You'll never get another chance.

runamok 11y ago

I used to live in Irvine which strikes me as very similar to PA (I live Mountain View now). The pressure put on kids there is incredible. And it starts from a very young age. Frankly the kids are way, way sharper than most adults I meet. Even in the bay area.

Florin_Andrei 11y ago

I think you nailed it. I live in the area and I have two kids in middle school. It's incredibly hard to not get sucked into keeping up with the Joneses here.

runamok 11y ago
I think that keeps me from wanting to have kids (besides my own innate selfishness and desire to continue investing all my energy into myself/gf vs. little ones). I would want to provide them the luxury of being a silly kid and the ability to explore and just mess around. To be curious without everything being an ulterior motive for succeeding. Because from age 20 or so til 65 you are expected to work your ass off in our culture. On the other hand it feels like a disservice to them since all these crazy alpha parents are driving their kids hard from a young age. So kudos to you for trying to find a balance.
- dennisgorelik 11y ago
  Why would you want to spoil your kids with luxury?

up_and_up 11y ago

I wonder how many residents in PA came from elsewhere with very different upbringings? I bet most CEO's and execs in SV were not raised in the pressurized environment of SV.

ZanyProgrammer 11y ago
No, but a lot of the people in PA aren't CEOs and execs. Upper class, well educated and affluent doesn't mean they are all VCs.

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

chralieboy 11y ago

Reminds me of the great line from Jeffrey Eugenides: "There is no evidence against genetic determinism more damning than the children of the rich.”

gdulli 11y ago
On the other hand, these suicides threaten the well-known saying that "wealth lasts three generations".

jtzhou 11y ago

Yep. If you slip up -- a series of B's, a summer wasted at a dead-end job, or a break-up with a significant other you sunk tons of time into, and end in a lower-tier area, you'll be effectively "banished" from the community. Your "friends" will look down at you at the 10-year reunion you likely won't attend, and you'll never be able to afford to live in the area you grew up. Banishment, or the threat of it, is one of the most psychologically difficult ordeals. Cut off from friends, community and our surroundings we have become accustomed to. Making a middle-class lifestyle in the Bay Area affordable, with better transit, will go a long way.

bwy 11y ago
Your first paragraph sounds so dramatic that I was expecting you to laugh the idea off as a joke at the end, but you didn't. It sounds like you're 100% serious. Is this actually the case? Don't mean to pry, but it sounds a little extreme, and I wonder if this has happened either to you or anyone you know. I grew up in Irvine (mentioned below as similar to PA) and no one I knew would have banished anyone for getting B's or not getting a nice job. We were normal kids.
- paloaltokid 11y ago
  It's not really an exaggeration of what it's like growing up in Palo Alto. When people marveled at someone's GPA, it would be how far above 4.0 unweighted it was. I think one kid at my school had a 4.8 weighted GPA. Anything below a 3.9 and you were seen as not all that interested in academics.
  - scroy 11y ago
    Not sure how the grades work there, how can unweighted GPA be above 4.0? At my HS, APs were weighted (to 4.5) but there was no way to go above 4.0 without that.
    - deadlast 11y ago
      AP as well as "honors credits" are graded from 2.0-5.0. To achieve this, you take probably 3-4 honors classes freshman year, along with the dreaded dead weight PE and a language if your school doesn't offer an AP language. Then you transition to 2-3 AP classes as well as 2 honors classes (Precal and English) sophomore year, as well as secondary PE. Junior year and senior year you take 5 or 6 APs. Then, if the competition still has not been shaken, there is option of enrolling in supplementary colleges at the local JC after school or over summer (which, nicely, also are measured out of 5.0 on the HS transcript). I enrolled in a mid tier private college instead of a UC due to fear of working harder than I did in high school. I cannot believe how much free time there is. I'll probably transfer up soon. We'll see.

selimthegrim 11y ago

But I mean wtf is this? Is Gunn comparable to TJ or Bronx or Stuyvesant where this is actually making you reasonably competitive at the higher level of entering STEM undergrad institutions? Why have these kids got it in their heads that the Gunn curriculum is so important? I didn't think this was a selective magnet school?

mathattack 11y ago
It's not a magnet. Horace Mann is more comparable. Similar socio-economics and pressure, and everyone is up against the same thing. They draw the wealthiest, but not necessarily the smartest. Stuy and Bronx Science are entrance exam based, so those going there are at the top of the heap academically to begin with.

nilkn 11y ago

I worked once with a recent college graduate who grew up in a very wealthy neighborhood. He drove a Ferrari to work. His mom was a supermodel and his dad a hugely successful big-city attorney. They lived in a $2M mansion. (Keep in mind that this was not in CA.) He probably made about $60k. It was clear he was having a hard time grasping the vast gap between the life he was able to afford on his own and the life he had growing up. In under a year, he quit to take a 100% remote job specifically so he could move back in with his parents.

nickbauman 11y ago

I have friends who live in Palo Alto. One works for a company that starts with the letter A the other works for a company that starts with the letter F. The two of them rent a little townhouse for something like $3000 a month. I live in a 4 bedroom home in downtown Minneapolis that I mortgage for less than $800 / mo. It will be paid off in 5 years. While I don't make what they make, I'm within reaching distance and I don't have to break my neck to get it. The financial arithmetic of living in Silicon valley alone doesn't attract me. But the work-yourself-to-death culture is enough to warrant the place a wide berth. My brother died suddenly a few years ago. He was here one moment. Gone the next. So be here, now. You'll never get another chance.